Modifying a Cornet to Accept a Trumpet Mouthpiece

Discussion in 'Horns' started by Dennis Ferry, Mar 12, 2005.

  1. Dennis Ferry

    Dennis Ferry New Friend

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    Feb 15, 2005
    Question for Leigh -

    Your trumpets look great. Hope I get a chance to try one sometime.

    Can you tell me what you think would happen if one were to cut off about 1/2" from the receiver end of a cornet leadpipe and fit it with a trumpet receiver? From what I've been able to determine, the opening would then be about .350" which is about what a typical trumpet leadpipe starts at. Do you think it's worth a try? My goal is to try and make a cornet feel a bit more like a trumpet to minimize problems when having to switch back and forth between the 2 instruments (on the same concert, for ex.).

    Thanks. Dennis
     
  2. trumpetpimp

    trumpetpimp Piano User

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    Dec 6, 2003
    Toronto
    There's a man who's thinking! What a great idea. I love brass band but am not a big fan of the cornet. I've only played a half dozen but I've never found one I liked as much as a trumpet. I'm been dealing with an old Yamaha cornet that plays pretty well(it helps that my cornet piece matches me trumpet piece) but it would be a blast to play on my mouthpiece.

    Too bad Leigh is away for a few days. I guess we'll have to wait.
     
  3. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

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    Oct 25, 2003
    Yee HAW!
    Maybe you've already thought of this, maybe not.

    There are two basic "designs" of cornet mouthpiece available: there is the short shank, deep V as made by Dennis Wick, Sparx (GR), Yamaha... and there is the "standard, long shank" which has a shallow TRUMPET CUP as made by Bach. Both types are made to fit cornet. Why not just go out and buy a Bach long-shank cornet mouthpiece? No leadpipe modification should be required and you'll get the mouthpiece/cup/rim/backbore same as for a trumpet but with the smaller diameter to fit your horn?

    Yamaha makes both types of CORNET mouthpiece as well.... check out their sizing charts. the "/S" designates the 'true' cornet mouthpiece for them.
     
  4. Dennis Ferry

    Dennis Ferry New Friend

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    Feb 15, 2005
    Thanks for your input. I already use a Bach type shank with a 1A (very V shaped) or 1B Bach cup. What bothers me about cornets is how they feel - they don't take the air the way I would like because the venturi of the leadpipe is about .335". I haven't tried every brand but I have played a lot of different ones. The important thing for me is that the leadpipe starts at least as big as a 25H pipe (approx. 350"). Then I think the feel (how it takes, or responds to, the air) would be similar.
     
  5. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

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    Oct 25, 2003
    Yee HAW!
    Sounds to me like you maybe should try some different brands of cornet then. (You didn't say what cornet you are currently playing). I have a 1973 Getzen Eterna 800 large bore (.464)...it takes all the air I can give it and produces a huge sound very efficiently! Flip Oakes produces a "Wild Thing" cornet that has (I believe) a .470 bore! Kanstul has some pretty "big" horns in their cornet lineups as well. They DO play differently (and feel different) from a Yamaha, Besson, B&H, etc.

    My Eterna feels and plays A LOT like my Eclipse MR in terms of "resistance" (more correctly called "impedance"). Remember that bore isn't everything (for that matter, hardly anything) when it comes to how a horn "feels".... perceived resistance is actually more a function of how easily the whole setup (mouthpiece, horn) resonates for a given amount of input and bracing, material, valve design, bell taper, wrap design are all components that change this "efficiency" IN ADDITION to venturi diameter. You'll also find that the shorter shank mouthpieces provide significantly more "open" feel than the Bach cornet pieces. (I've done a side-by-side comparison on both a Bach cornet and a Yamaha 2330 using a Denis Wick (short shank) 4B and a Bach #7 long-shank cornet piece)

    You are in Switzerland... there is a B&H dealer there (who also have the Denis Wick line) but at the moment their name eludes me. They are a rather large store and you might find them by searching through the new B&H website (Themusicgroup). If I were you I'd be looking to wander over there and try some different mouthpieces that are designed for a cornet in terms of both cup AND shank/backbore.
     
  6. Robert Rowe

    Robert Rowe Mezzo Piano User

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    Dec 24, 2004
    Welcome to TrumpetMaster, Dennis Ferry.

    We look forward to your participation in our Forums.

    OK -- here's my "take" on your situation ....
    Don't make yourself "crazy" in trying to fit a trumpet mpc on a cornet receiver (although it can be done, and the alternate ideas submitted by the above posters are valid ideas and suggestions).
    Use a "true" (deep "V" cup) mpc on the cornet for the proper cornet sound, which is distinctly unlike a trumpet sound. Use a trumpet mpc on a trumpet ... and a cornet mpc on a cornet.
    Find yourself a trumpet to borrow (or buy), and experiment yourself.

    You should have my dilemma -- trying to fit a French Horn mpc to a trumpet receiver. I have done so -- albeit, a "Rube Goldberg" solution with a weird fitment of two adapters.

    Regards,
    Robert Rowe
     
  7. Dennis Ferry

    Dennis Ferry New Friend

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    Feb 15, 2005
    Thanks for your ideas. I still plan to use a true cornet cup but on a trumpet mouthpiece. I'm trying to avoid a big difference in feel when going back and forth between trumpet and cornet. When I don't have to switch between instruments, I'm fine with using a cornet mouthpiece.
     
  8. nieuwguyski

    nieuwguyski Forte User

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    Aug 9, 2004
    Santa Cruz County, CA
    Sounds like you might be in the market for a DeNicola Puje, a cornet/trumpet hybrid that takes a trumpet mouthpiece and has a trumpet-style leadpipe and tuning slide, but is as short as a cornet and has a shepherd's crook bell. I just sold one. The one I had played very well, with a sound somewhat like a bright cornet -- that is to say almost as bright as a trumpet when played with a shallow trumpet-style mouthpiece, and as dark as any of my American-style cornets when played with a deep V-cup cornet mouthpiece and a cornet-to-trumpet adapter. If you matched a Puje with a Curry TF or Reeves C2J mouthpiece, you'd probably have what you're looking for.
     
  9. eclipse trumpets

    eclipse trumpets Piano User

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    Oct 24, 2003
    England
    Hi Dennis

    Welcome to TM!

    I have indeed been away recently so please forgive the late reply.

    Unfortunately there is no set answer as to what effect it will have i'm afraid.
    It does come down to what particular cornet you have as not all cornets would react the same of course being of different set ups.
    This would certainly be one of those trial and error type things which is a always a gamble.
    What i can say is that you are about right with your estimate that roughly 1/2 inch from the pipe would match up to the venturi size of most trumpet pipes (again depends which cornet)
    Be careful of course to add the 1/2 inch length back into the instrument when choosing the trumpet reciever!
    Personally i would air on the side of caution and take less than the 1/2 inch to start with! maybe 1/4 inch and work from there to see how it goes.

    Robert has made some good points here and Toots also! But if you feel the need to try this out (and it IS NOT by any means a stupid idea) and the cornet you will try this on is not a true love of yours then why not.
    If i had to guess at the outcome then i would say that it would be unlikely to acheive just what you are after!
    I am not for one second trying to put you off attempting this! but even if you were trying to get another trumpet to feel the same way as your own trumpet with the same piece, that would be difficult enough in itself.

    Getting a cornet to feel the same as your trumpet with the same piece is another thing altogether in my opinion! It can be done but it may well involve a lot more work than just the reciever and start of the leadpipe area.
    I think i would possibly have to start with a larger bored Valve section, then also make a new leadpipe to suit that.
    To be honest we are talking total rebuild.


    I would be interested to know how you get on with it if you do decide to go ahead.
    If you need any further info then please feel free to contact me either here or by email anytime

    Regards

    Leigh
     
  10. Dennis Ferry

    Dennis Ferry New Friend

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    Feb 15, 2005
    Thanks for your thoughts. I'll let you know what happens when I try it.
     

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