Monette mouthpiece with non-Monette trumpet sound

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Haste2, Sep 18, 2010.

  1. Haste2

    Haste2 Piano User

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    I'm using a Yamaha trumpet (silver... can't remember what model... it doesn't really say it flat out anywhere on the horn except maybe there's a model code somewhere on it), with a B2 Monette MP.

    My question is: assuming I get optimal sound, will the sound be closer to a full monette sound (monette trumpet with the mouthpiece) or will it be closer to a regular Yamaha silver trumpet sound with, say, a 1 1/4C mouthpiece?

    The reason I ask is because, well, I want to figure out what type of sound I want to reasonably emulate!

    Also, another note: if I feel like I use my top lip more than my bottom lip when I play, is that definitely a problem? Occasionally my top lip hurts a little after playing a lot, but not that often. Also, I'm a downstream player, if that's any help; you would think being downstream would increase the likelihood of using your lower lips a lot.

    This isn't a question about my air use, though for quite some time how I use my air is all I've been thinking about. But, I just realized the upper-lip thing about my embouchre recently.

    Edit: Okay, after reading a few things maybe it's a good thing to use a bit more upper lip. (for some reason i was thinking the opposite; 2/3 lower and 1/3 upper lip) My embouchure seems pretty normal, though. I play slightly off to the side of my lips, which is of course normal. Sometimes I worry I am not using the lower lip like I should. Do you ever feel tiredness or strain on your LOWER lip (your "cushion")? Because that never seems to be the case for me. Also, when I do pedal tones it seems like my front lip goes way forward particularly on the low C, even though it's supposed to be for developing your lower lips, isn't that right?
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2010
  2. Outkastah

    Outkastah Pianissimo User

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    It all depends on what you are looking for, but as for me I am currently playing on a Yamaha New York with a B6S1 mouthpiece and I can say it sounds a lot more different then when I use Bach or Yammie Mp's. I wouold say a normal horn with a Monette Mp sounds like... A normal horn with a Monette MP. Plus a lot of monette's horns have more diffused smoother sounds which I dont think is possiable to achieve with any "normal" trumpet and any Mp combo. I would say use the B2 and your horn.
     
  3. sj3209

    sj3209 Piano User

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    1. How old are you?
    2. What grade are you in school?
    3. Do you own a black duster?
    4. Are you harboring negative thoughts about your schoolmates?
    5. Do you own any guns?

    :-?
     
  4. Outkastah

    Outkastah Pianissimo User

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    ... uhh... wait... what? :huh:
     
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    You can't "plan" any of this stuff. First of all, the sound that we hear is 95% a product of the style and musicality of the player and 5% horn and mouthpiece. Our synergy with the sound, blow and feel of the hardware is not easily planable. Even although spectral analysis of 10 players playing the same trumpet/mouthpiece combinations would only show a couple of percent of difference, intelligent ears can immediately identify who is playing. That is because the maschines are measuring the wrong things.

    No Yamaha or Bach trumpet can ever sound like any Monette trumpet. The concepts are too far apart. ANY accomplished player can be immediately identified regardless of the name brand of hardware that is screwed to their faces. That is because they have musical attributes that are far greater than any hardware differences.

    For the player with weak chops and sound concept, the equipment plays a VERY large role in what we hear because there is too little musical information in what comes out the front of the horn.

    I find all of the threads in "what do I need to get this sound" as actually keeping the player from being able to reach that goal. If we have "good" hardware, our trademark is not the horn it is the music that we make. Nobody pays to hear a trumpet player with a Curry, Monette or Bach mouthpiece sound. They expect soul, groove and passion. Those are not attributes of hardware.

    Emulation of sound is an interesting concept that can only be realized when you have enough musical information to support the STYLE of the player that you wish to emulate. You do not need a Monette to emulate Wynton, Manny, Charles, Robin, Adam or any other player. Buying a Monette will NOT bring YOUR playing closer to theirs either. Plain old practice can. If during your journey, you mix quality of playing and specific characteristics of a horn, Creative Energy can be released simply by the synergy that can form between our brain, face, ears and hardware. Even the power of suggestion can play a big role in our musicality. If somebody suggests that our playing is crap, our world can fall apart.

    The answer is ALWAYS between our ears - NEVER screwed to the front of our faces.
     
  6. Outkastah

    Outkastah Pianissimo User

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    Well said Rowuk
     
  7. Haste2

    Haste2 Piano User

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    sj3209... what on earth was that about? Was it the smiley face I used or what?

    Thanks for spending your time to try and help me rowuk. You could be a little more kind, though. Did this topic annoy you? Unfortunately, it didn't answer my question. I wasn't saying that equipment is what makes a player in the slighest. I know that already. But you would think you would need to practice a bit differently, depending on your equipment you use, to achieve the optimal sound for that equipment. Or am I wrong on that, and I can actually can use a jazz horn/mouthpiece to practice classical music very effectively?

    Are you telling me to COMPLETELY disregard any aspect of sound of a professional that is dependent on his equipment? (e.g. the process of achieving a Wynton Monette sound would be EXACTLY the same as the process of achieving a Wynton Bach sound? Or, in other words, purely his "personal" styles of sound?) Pretend for a moment that Wynton actually did use a Bach trumpet ;)

    In other words, if I try to emulate Wynton, go for the "Wynton" sound, not the "Wynton Monette" sound? Then this, in turn, makes the equipment used completely irrelevant as I try to achieve his sound?

    Or is that wrong?

    But, I'm more interested in sounding like Bud Herseth (esp. from the '50s) or Rolf Smedvig, neither of whom use a Monette, I don't think. I am just worried that having a Monette mouthpiece would make it harder to emulate their sound or something for that reason....

    I obviously don't expect to come close to sounding like those two guys, but when you reach for the stars, believe in yourself, and plan and practice carefully, you can go much further than otherwise.
     
  8. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Haste,
    I don't understand what you mean by "kind". The confusion for many players about hardware is not annoying. Just about everywhere you look, advertising says that some hardware is going to make you a better person - whether that is clothes, deoderant, automobile, brand of cigarettes or beer, and sadly trumpets. I consider this to be BS. I consider this to be a major reason that some players at the lower end of the bell curve do not advance as quickly as they should - messing around with equipment instead of improving skills.

    I am saying that the brand of hardware is insignificant in YOUR PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT. Once your development has reached a certain level, then hardware becomes interesting again because you have the skill to fit the slightly different palette of colors into a musical context.

    No, a Monette will not bring your learning experience closer to Wyntons and a Bach will not help you find Bud or Rolfs sound faster.

    I know many players that are INSULTED by the assumption that some horn makes them what they are. Adam Rapa had an interesting comment on his site about this.

    Michealangelo is not defined by the brand of paint or manufacturer of brush that he used, neither was Picasso or Rembrandt. A 5 star cook is not judged by his electricity supplier or brand of skillet - we judge the results on our plate. Why should music be different?

    The ingredients for trumpet sound are so infinitesmally brain and so microscopically hardware. The comparison is more to a comfortable shoe that lets us stay on our feet all day. That shoe may very well help us with the "quality" of our step. It is only the difference between winning and losing when you are in the top 0.001%.

    I will say that any good trumpet is not in the way of building a "total" player. A Xeno, Strad or Monette will not make anyone more or less musical, will not add one note of quality range and will not keep anyone from becoming the best that they can be.

    If you want to hear Wynton on Bach, any of his old Art Blakey recordings will do. He has learned a lot in the past 30 years and THAT is the primary difference in his playing today.

    The difference in sound between Bud and Rolf is SO great that I don't think that this could be even considered a common goal. The "sound" that we hear, I did describe. It is not the frequency response of the horn. It is the big picture of which the playing style governs the results. What we hear is experience, a sensitivity for the art form, the results of thousands of hours of preparation.

    No, the Monette mouthpiece will not hold you back. What holds us back is the couple of pounds of synapses between the ears. What you THINK is Buds or Rolfs sound is not even really theirs unless you are getting lessons from them. What you imagine is what the recording engineer decided was best. We all know how truthful recording engineers and their equipment are...............

    My advice: try and figure out what about those players makes them unique. What do they have that other fine players do not. It isn't 3dB more at 2.625 KHz. Don't worry about the mouthpiece, you have other problems far more worthy of consideration before you match Bud in sound, playing or stature in the section. If you are "comfortable" with a mouthpiece, concentrate on getting more soul and groove through it. THAT is the only goal that brings us closer to the monsters!
     
  9. Haste2

    Haste2 Piano User

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    Jun 16, 2010
    Thanks for the clarification and helping me understand better, rowuk. :) It's good to know I don't have to worry about my equipment when it comes to progressing as a player...

    Heh, I know. After posting that I was wondering if you would comment in this fashion. I'm still trying to decide which one I'd rather shoot for. =P (if either)
     
  10. stumac

    stumac Fortissimo User

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    While it is an admirable thought to try to emulate one of the great's sound, what we have is our own sound almost regardless of equipment. Cultivate that sound, develop your musicality, be your own person.

    Regards, Stuart.
     

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