Monette string

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by B15M, Oct 22, 2005.

  1. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

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    You just said it.

    One of the reasons many who play conventional instruments is the supposed lack of highs Monettes have. You know we've all heard this said many times. Well, they don't don't lack highs but they contain many more lows. This was documented by independent reseachers way before Dave started building the heavier horns with even more fundamental to the sound.

    Monettes don't have that buzz around the sound that a lot of people like. I used to like that but I don't anymore. So, yes, the sound on Dave's horns is closer to the old F and Eb trumpets of old than today's brighter C trumpets do which we all have grown up and cut our teeth on.

    Note I didn't say identical. I said closer.

    ML
     
  2. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

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    Here, I'll throw this in to make the point better. Remember the old thing about inhaling helium and it would make your voice go "higher"? Well, we know that isn't true. Your voice doesn't go higher. The illusion is created because what the helium does is cut out the lower partials of the voice. As the helium wears off, the lower partials and the fundamental return and you sound normal.

    So when I said the Monette has just as many highs as conventional horns do, I wasn't joking. It's just that the lower partials are more present and have a more profound quality. I have come to like that sound very well while other people like to hear the "zing" in the sound they're accustomed to.

    It's all about what one prefers.

    There are several people on this forum that have heard me play their equipment and then play my stuff. They'll tell you just what I've described because they heard it for themselves. No voodoo, no tricks. Just a clear difference in the weight of the sound. You either like it or you don't simple as that.

    ML
     
  3. ebtromba

    ebtromba Pianissimo User

    Fair enough. By the way, I’m no “elite traditionalist†by any means. There is only room for the best playing in this bidness, and within that there can be many great sounds.

    I see it differently. The big F trumpets had tons of cylindrical tubing, and this gave them an extremely brilliant sound.

    No modern C trumpet can recreate this brilliance. We can mess around with highs and lows, brights and darks, but nothing but more tubing can create that sheer brilliance. If we wanted to sound more like the trumpets of the past, we would play Bbs all the time.

    To me, comparing modern conventional trumpets, monette trumpets, and historical F trumpets, is like comparing apples to oranges to bananas.
     
  4. Jimi Michiel

    Jimi Michiel Forte User

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    Man(ny), I thought Eric, 229 and I were the only ones paying attention to this one, but then I step out for a milkshake (my first trip to Mickey's Diner in St. Paul) and BOOM!!!

    Eric,
    Man said about what I would say with regards to your first post. Charlie has always had a dark sound as far as I know. Check out some recordings of his with Minnespolis, if you can find them. My favorites are Ravel: Daphnis and Chloe, Petrouchka and Bartok Concerto for Orchestra. In each case, as Manny said, bright would be the last word that comes to mind.

    Now, the things you quoted a teacher saying about Charlie's horn... well, I'm not incredibly familiar with the mechanics of it, but I will say this: that instrument allows him to get an incredibly broad range of colors that, to be honest, I don't think can be gotten from any other trumpet. He's let me try it a few times and it's unlike anything I've ever played. The first thing you realize (after the sheer weight of it) is how much air it takes to produce a good sound. I found that it forced me to be in control of my breathing mechanism for it to even produce a good sound. The next thing I notice was how easy it played once I relaxed. It seemed as if there were a million different timbral colors available to me once I loosened up. To quote Wynton, "It's a whole different thing."

    So I hope this helps. Oh, almost forgot... Eric, you asked about whether, when doing the crescendo excercise I mentioned, if it was just easier to adjust or "bend" the pitch on a Monette. When I do this excercize, I really don't feel the need to bend the pitch at all. In fact, one criticism I have on Monette instruments is that, for me, it is harder to bend the pitch than on "conventional" trumpets.

    Monettes lock into the pitch center, and if the player tries to play above or below that pitch center, funky things happen and I sometimes find myself fighting the instrument. It is interesting that, when you order your horn, one of the things on the questionaire you fill out is what pitch you want the instrument to be adjusted to. When you get your instrument, whatever pitch you have selected is the pitch that the horn responds best at. For example, it it's set at 438, and all of a sudden you're playing in a community band that tunes at 444, well, you might be in trouble.

    Well, this has been interesting, but I have to get up early tomorrow morning... I have a very interesting weekly church gig where just about anything is thrown at me, usually at the very last possible second, so it would be good to catch a few zzz's before I head out.

    'Night,
    Jimi

    PS. Manny-You're thoughts are very interesting about the use of low trumpets on Mahler, Strauss, Debussy, etc... I never really considered that, but now you've got me thinking... And brazo to Eric, I never would have put that together.
     
  5. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

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    eb,

    Fine. We have different opinions based on our individual experiences, you say no, I say yes.

    And that's that. Thanks for keeping it civil.

    ML
     
  6. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    So Manny,

    Do you like the plastic string idea?

    Do you know why there is not a third slide stop?
     
  7. PhatmonB6

    PhatmonB6 Mezzo Piano User

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  8. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

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    B,

    Fishing line works fine, Dental floss ( good for after lunch rehearsals), plastic in various forms is fine, I think. Why not?

    Phat,

    Mickey's is still very much there, right near the Ordway.

    ML
     
  9. PhatmonB6

    PhatmonB6 Mezzo Piano User

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    Thanks Manny You know I have lived here since '78 and have never ate there. Should probably put it on my things to do list. Have read and heard so much about its nostalgia.
     
  10. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

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    I had one meal there when I first got here and was disappointed. Everybody made such a big deal out of it. It was supposed to be kind of "edgy" and fun because the waitresses were kind of surly, a la stereotypical New York. That would have been fine with me except that in New York, the payoff is the food is usually excellent and worth dealing with the washed out waitresses that knew their business. The food was breathtakingly mediocre and I haven't gone back since.

    Now, I've made it a habit to give places a second shot before I roundly dismiss them. Jimi, is Mickey's now worth the time and potential shock to my digestive system or is it a place for malts and nothing else?

    B,

    What I've been told about the stop is the same as Jimi and you. I've gotten along just fine without one, most recently in Daphnis and Chloé where I have to play a low F. I've played Heldenleben demos a bunch of times and not had a problem. Dave was pretty adamant about not having it on that slide unless the player absolutely insisted. Come to think of it, that's the valve/silde combo that gets the least adjustment relative to the other two so maybe it's more sensitive because there's less room to fine tune? I don't know.

    ML
     

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