Mouthpieces

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Crunch, Sep 12, 2007.

  1. stchasking

    stchasking Forte User

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    Godchaser is not a trumpet player. He is an internet surfer and research librarian.

    Is there an "ignore" button I can use?


    As for the poster, you need to take Rowuk's advice and practice.
    I would advise the book, Lip Flexibilities by Earl Irons for a new player that needs to play modern music.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2007
  2. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    Physics doesn't change, but changes in physical shapes can and often do affect the sound. Most of us will put up with less than perfect physics if we can achieve our concept of a perfect sound. Most of us find the Bach 7C (Yamaha/Schilke 11) a good starting point.
     
  3. godchaser

    godchaser Banned

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    Jun 17, 2007
    stchasking your displacing player status as factual discernment. That's not good judgement in any cause, but it's your world. Opinions of equipment playability is subjective but the viability of Lynch's design's arun't in question. There's no necessity in player feedback, the design's sound.

    "In this case there's only what Physics doesn't change, but changes in physical shapes can and often do affect the sound. Most of us will put up with less than perfect physics if we can achieve our concept of a perfect sound. Most of us find the Bach 7C (Yamaha/Schilke 11) a good starting point."

    Great point V, and this is no less true with efficent design. Good learning may in fact be enabled further with what Schwab has mistakenly labeled 'tricked out' equipment. Efficent design's just simplicity found function's all. No big deal.

    :D

    Enjoy Crunch; whatever you decide on Bud. And i hope you give the horn some room in practice -if it's in your blood.



    C
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2007
  4. godchaser

    godchaser Banned

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    If ya'll can make the argument that quality equipment's not for beginner and pro alike- and's not ideal for good learning, i'm willing to listen. And let's be real clear.. this line of thought wasn't my thinking of pursuit when i first posted. I'm just trying to keep up.


    Not sure what your all so upset about.

    Doesn't make sense.



    I was surfing the archives here for a bit, and here comes more now-

    :) LOL

    You all are goin' on.

    And stchasking was just spoutin' off about me being a librarian there Crunch. ..He doesn't know what he's talkin' about. My meaning is, if he knew me better, he'd know a dumb hillbilly like me's flattered by the notion.

    Don't let these ol'boys fool ya- they're some good hearted people.



    C
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2007
  5. Crunch

    Crunch New Friend

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    Whoa, I never expected so much replies. First of all, thank you, people. Nice of you to take the time. Second... HMmmmm...
    Well, I shall lay it down as it is, no need for me to say I am something I am not... Well, I can play Sultans of swing on a guitar.
    I can play final countdown. I can play Turkish march. As for the trumpet, ehehehe. Tottaly different story. Nobody ever taught me anything. Had no teacher. Nobody even showed me the right way how to put my lips on the mouthpiece. (which I am doing wrong, I am sure, that is why I sound so lousy.) Nobody showed me which combination of valves to press to get which tone. I played a tone on a guitar and played the trumpet until I got the same tone out. So.
    The thing you are all saying, bout the teacher and everything....
    You know. As for practice, I practice bout 3 days per week for 20 mins. Sitting in the car somewhere in the middle of nowhere cause i can"t play at home cause it is so darn loud. This is for you to get a picture of how lousy I am. At trumpet.:dontknow: But lately we started playing this gigs where I really need some heights, or othervise the rest of the band covers me and I am not heard at all. I can play in front of the mic, of course, but it does"t sound nice. You know, fluid. Juicy. Like when you put a good acoustic guitar on a good amp and add just a touch of reverb. Hehe. I dunno if I will have much more time to practice for the next year or two. I study economy, pretty hard college. + working. So, it is kinda hard. So if there is a mouthiece (or a trumpet for that matter) that would help me blow a hole in the people in front of me (someone saed that above and i think that is hillarious. hehe.) well... And I know there"s got to be. It"s not the same if you play a Gibson LP or Ibanez RG. By far not.:-)
    P.S. Did I say thanks? Well, won"t hurt to put it down again. Thanks, people.
     
  6. Crunch

    Crunch New Friend

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    Darn. I just figured out this topic is off place... Sorry guys. If anyone can move this thread where it should be, feel free to do so.;-)
     
  7. lmf

    lmf Forte User

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    Crunch.

    One of the reasons teachers are recommended for trumpet is to make sure a student doesn't develop bad habits that will actually hurt playing instead of hurting. Once you learn a bad habit, it can stay with you for years.

    I believe the rule of thumb is that a teacher will help maximize your trumpet playing, not hurt. It is an investment in yourself to which can help you become a better trumpet player over time.

    Twenty minutes a day - several times a day - would add to your skills. Right now, it appears you are practicing with the time you have available. You sound like a good guitarist and probably play often. Your approach to trumpet will require lots of practice, too.

    Best wishes, Crunch!


    Lloyd
     
  8. godchaser

    godchaser Banned

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    Jun 17, 2007
    There's some good help here Crunch.

    Person Tag Results - ArtistshouseMusic

    'Nobody even showed me the right way how to put my lips on the mouthpiece.'

    There's video clips of embouchure -breathing, suggested method books and reading, etc.

    If your struggling for twenty minutes, three days a week, with no guidance at all.. you obviously got the trumpet in your blood. That's incredible, your tenacity there.

    Also saw here, where some folks were bragging on Bob Odneal. He's here at TM -maybe drop'm a PM and see what's what. Possibly this'll be of help as well, in absence of a teacher. And could be, it'll have you scouting to find some good ones to work with.

    I'm in that process myself. -We got to have the tools to get at the fundamentals right.


    Bob Odneal Trumpet

    More about Casual Double High "C" or
    Purchase Casual Double High "C"


    Audio and video examples
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2007
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Godchaser/Chris,
    The problem with asymmetric is that unless you have a teacher in the know, you will have a serious physical problem. The geometry does not lend itself to an instable embouchure. You have to place the piece VERY accurately to get it to work, 3x 20 minutes per week will not accomplish that. Even once your chops are stable, you have no indication if that "superior" design will even offer any improvement. The greatest form of flattery is in the form of the amount of people copying or "stealing" designs. There is no run on assymmetry.
    I would have to buy one and get good results before recommending it to anybody.
    There is no substitute for professional guidance as much as many think that they can get away with it. The few exceptions throughout the centuries are not sufficient evidence for me. Let's get this guy up and running (85% or so) on easy to diagnose stuff and leave the painstakingly slow optimization (15%) for the future when he can afford to invest more time!
     
  10. godchaser

    godchaser Banned

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    Jun 17, 2007
    Godchaser/Chris,
    'The problem with asymmetric is that unless you have a teacher in the know, you will have a serious physical problem. The geometry does not lend itself to an instable embouchure. You have to place the piece VERY accurately to get it to work, 3x 20 minutes per week will not accomplish that.'

    Hey Robin. Firstly, that's obviously real good sense in finding a teacher. (I sure never meant to suggest different.) Though, as you've suggested, most teachers are probably unfamilar with asymmetrics -likely don't use them, and wouldn't be able to demonstrate/teach proper technique, given an 'ideal' teaching/learning scenario? Which is one of the reasons i'll probably have to teach myself how to use them. And i wouldn't argue this isn't ideal by depiction, although i'm not the least bit disquited by the prospect, given it becomes necessary. Or that there'd be cause?

    But more to my meaning, i disagree with your thinking, in that an asymmetric by its design- is necessarily a more complex, (all be it potentially, a more demanding technique to learn?) -A (run to crawl) kind'a plight, given one's beginner status is the suggestion. :)

    I disagree with this for the same reasons you suggest - the design itself. -That it's anymore challenging than tried and true learning with traditional mouthpieces? 'Accurate placement's' necessary for both to be used properly. My thinking's that a demanding, (chops learning curve), or a lack of room for error in proper usage, that you speak to with Lynch's designs, is good discipline of development? Less latitude in error is best; is my thinking. 'Unstable' chops would benefit moreso.. given the training wheel effect of the accurate placement necessary to use them right.

    'Even once your chops are stable, you have no indication if that "superior" design will even offer any improvement.'

    I supect that player progression, (regardless of status), is enabled to a greater degree with an asymmetric, but not by a "superior" design; but just a more effficent one. And no doubt, and i think everybody would agree with Vulgano Brother when he said, that an efficent design doesn't mean it'll 'necessarily' be conducive of the sounds only achievable by traditional designs?

    Which will insist on the creation of asymmetric design diversity as well? Which isn't a notion of replacement, but yet still greater diversity?

    'The greatest form of flattery is in the form of the amount of people copying or "stealing" designs. There is no run on asymmetry.
    I would have to buy one and get good results before recommending it to anybody.'

    I can't disagree with that, but you'll pardon me using your experience against you here Robin, in that i've read where you've said this is a traditionalist's industry, and players are very practical in not interrupting their professional responsibilities. -And to that, i guess all player's generally, in maintaining a progression by familiarity? Trying to facilitate an asymmetric into routines doesn't srtike me a worthwhile prospect either, at first glance, and possibly ever.

    Which is another reason i'm going to start with them. But far more in mind of my impressions that they'll, by consequence of their design, keep after me in minimizing potential for bad habits. Which is more my reasoning too, that a teacherless habit on an asymmetric; given there's no teachers around, isn't as trial intensive as would be otherwise?

    'There is no substitute for professional guidance as much as many think that they can get away with it. The few exceptions throughout the centuries are not sufficient evidence for me.'

    No doubt your right Robin. There's got to be a balance struck in how we effectively learn from within? The trick's finding the teachers that can help us be ourselves on purpose? I suspect it's as easy as finding the ones we like, (given an ideal setting), and can play what they're able to articulate?

    'Let's get this guy up and running (85% or so) on easy to diagnose stuff and leave the painstakingly slow optimization (15%) for the future when he can afford to invest more time!'

    That's not the least bit unreasonable, i sure wouldn't say otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2007

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