MP buzz pitch vs trumpet pitch

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by DiaxII, Apr 14, 2010.

  1. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Most of the stuff posted in this thread are just plain wrong.

    The trumpet does not amplify what is coming out of the mouthpiece. A trumpet works MUCH differently. The same goes for the pitch on the mouthpiece with and without the horn Two completely different things are happening.

    The sound coming out of the bell is only partially related to what comes out of the mouthpiece. When we play a note into the mouthpiece and horn, we basically just get a standing wave going in the horn (kind of like the note that you get blowing on the top of a bottle). That standing wave normally is determined by the laws of physics and can be any of the notes that we can play without changing the valves. Which note that we get has a lot to do with how strong that our chops are. This is because that standing wave does fight back a little and weak chops can't overcome it. If the horn just amplified, we would have no "slots" and none of the characteristic trumpet brilliance.

    When we play the pedal note C, that is one wavelength in the whole horn. Our low C is 2 wavelengths, G is 3, 3rd space C is 4, E is 5, G is 6, Bb above the staff is 7 and high C is 8 wavelengths.

    The ONLY things that buzzing on a mouthpiece are good for is ear training and just getting the blood flowing. It is of no direct benefit to more accurately playing specific pitches as the standing wave and the lips reaction to it determine the success. You have to practice with the horn to train that fine motor reaction.
     
  2. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    As I perceive it, the vibe I set up on the mouthpiece, enters the trumpet as a sound wave as could be, but doesn't have to be, modified by the valves as to length of the wave, but only then then is amplified somewhat by the bell section as that last section is comparable to a megaphone or straight conical form.

    Buzzing on a mouthpiece alone or with auxiliary is just a strengthener ... it might attrack ducks or turkeys ... but I don't think anyone would pay money to attend a concert of such alone vis it is not music to the human ear, and yet there have been recognized a few who can lip buzz a sound that when audio amplified electronically do sound like a trumpet.
     
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Ed,
    the standing wave is MUCH more powerful. Actually our lips don't even have to be on pitch when starting, the horns resonance actually will force the lips to cooperate and center on the nearest partial. The bell does many other things like shape the overtone structure, add distortion and most importantly, change the acoustic length of the horn based on frequency.
     
  4. Bixel

    Bixel Pianissimo User

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    I do MP buzzing a lot - about one hour a day.
    My first two practice sessions are solely MP buzzing.

    By executing arpeggios and melodies on the MP with a good resonating sound avoiding airy noise you will gain control over what will happen when you play trumpet.

    What you are capable to play on your MP you will be able to play on the trumpet with good sound and good intonation.

    What you are capable to play on your trumpet you cannot necessarily play on your mouthpiece with good intonation because the trumpet tends to lie: its physics - to a certain degree - "correct" weak intonation, resulting in (more or less) slight corruption of sound.

    I strongly recommend MP buzzing.

    :cool:
    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2010
  5. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    All waves act pretty much the same way and are affected by just about anything. I just try to minimize a variance from what I intend to project with my instrument. If any part of my instrument is discerned to be the cause of distortion it's time to do something to correct it or get an improved instrument. Yes, we know that brace attachment placement, the uneveness of solder mount to the valve or the uneveness and solder of the rim modify the bell from horn to horn. Thus, we try several horns and select the one as satisfys us the best ... or the best that we can afford. I've tried to synchronize my playing a note to a tuning fork, electronic tuner, and oscilloscope and alway have three different results. Quite frankly, I respect the tuning fork the most.
     
  6. crazyandy88

    crazyandy88 Pianissimo User

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    To the OP...the difference in your buzz pitch and your trumpet pitch depends on where your tuning slide sits. If you buzz a concert F, but your slide is 3 inches out...you probably won't be able to play an F when you put the mouthpiece in. This is because of the standing wave Rowuk spoke of. When you buzz a mouthpiece you are making your chops buzz. When playing the trumpet, all you are doing is blowing air through an aperture which excites the air molecules in the trumpet to create a standing wave. This wave causes the lips to act as a valve, releasing periodic "puffs" of air that creates a buzz at one of the resonant frequencies of the tube. You can test this by playing a long tone F on trumpet and pulling the horn from the face. If you change nothing...you will just be blowing air through your aperture. When you put the horn back...the buzzing resumes. Mpc and trumpet are one instrument to me because together, they make the trumpet system.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2010

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