my 2 worlds - well maybe 3

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by revjames, Apr 6, 2014.

  1. revjames

    revjames Piano User

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    Nov 14, 2010
    Anglesey, North Wales
    Started playing again after a 30 year break 4 years ago. Decided I liked jazz and found some music and learned as I went. Found some like minded people and joined a club where I play (usually every month). Timing was an issue (I put a thread on here about it!) so decided to join a brass band to improve discipline and sight reading. So I now play on the back row on 3rd cornet and sometimes 2nd. band playing coming on well, timing issues and sight reading very much improved. In fact our band (menai bridge brass band) came 2nd in the welsh championships recently.

    So all well and good.... but in my jazz world, I am told by my friends that I am sticking too tightly to the notes and need to let it swing more....

    In my band world.... not allowed to swing it.... need to be a slave to the dots and dynamics etc....

    you see my problem?

    my 3rd world is playing in church where I do what I want :)

    Anyone else have such conflicts of playing styles etc and how did you deal with it?
     
  2. Peter McNeill

    Peter McNeill Utimate User

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    Melbourne Australia
    Yep,

    Same as you, same issues, and still dealing with it - just move with the steps of the crowd. Same thing Big Band, Concert Band, Light Orchestra - all fun.

    It sounds like you get your freedom in Church - enjoy that time.
     
  3. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

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    Apr 5, 2011
    Hi revjames,
    Swing is based on the upbeats. Without knowing what this sounds and feels like, you will either play "Ricky-ticky (dotted 8ths and 16ths) or have an irregular swing which is confusing.
    What's the trick? Hit the upbeats. The more upbeats you have, the more it will swing.
    How do you do maintain this rhythm and not get lost? Focus on the hi hat.
    The hi hat will guide you as you learn this new rhythm.
    Remember, if you can't hear it, you can't play it.
    Dr.Mark
     
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Hi revjames,

    rhythm is based on learned patterns. We learn the patterns by repetition - hundreds to thousands of repetitions. Scales and intervals at first slowly in perfect time and feeling and then as the patterns become second nature, speed them up - retaining the perfection of the slow motion version. A scale a day keeps the swing police away!
     
  5. Littlejg

    Littlejg Pianissimo User

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    Mar 31, 2011
    UK

    ...........just syncopate! daddio, syncopate!





    Cynical realism is the intelligent mans best excuse for doing nothing in an intolerable situation.......Aldous Huxley
     
  6. PiGuy_314

    PiGuy_314 Pianissimo User

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    Oct 12, 2013
    Pennsylvania
    Welcome to TM!

    I had similar stylistic problems. The best way I know how to say the way to fix is to feel it. You have to feel it. If you're not feeling it, you just aren't going to sound as good as if you did. You can tell when there's a band who really loves a song, because they play it differently. They feel the music, instead of just playing it.

    I hope this helps, and enjoy your stay on TM!

    ~Noah
     
  7. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

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    Apr 5, 2011
    Hi rowuk,
    You stated:
    "rhythm is based on learned patterns. We learn the patterns by repetition - hundreds to thousands of repetitions. Scales and intervals at first slowly in perfect time and feeling and then as the patterns become second nature, speed them up - retaining the perfection of the slow motion version. A scale a day keeps the swing police away!
    ----
    Yes....and No.
    You are absolutley right that a person needs to learn patterns. However, where that pattern is placed determines if it will swing.
    For example:
    Pat a 4/4 rhythm on your leg and hum the first 4 or 8 bars of Donna Lee (a common jazz pattern) starting the song on one.
    Now, do the same thing again and start the song on the "upbeat"
    That's the difference.
    Dr.Mark
     
  8. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    Been there, doing that! Just keep at it.
     
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    The consummate trumpeter needs it all! They need up and down beat patterns, they also need melodies in 1, 3, 5, 7, .. beats/measure time. They need to patternize long/short as well. Those are still all patterns, the basic building blocks of our craft.

     
  10. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

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    Apr 5, 2011
    Hi rowuk,
    I stand corrected, thank you.
    I was thinking of "pattern" too narrowly. Rhythm is a pattern too.
    Dr.Mark
     

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