My confession

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by oldlou, Aug 30, 2009.

  1. Dale Proctor

    Dale Proctor Utimate User

    Jul 20, 2006
    Heart of Dixie
    Your dad's guilt trip is still working on you. I'd imagine if you put some feel into a swing piece, you would probably feel a little dirty for having done so. That, or you'd feel like a sellout to the "real music" community. If it makes you uncomfortable, don't do it. There's plenty of other music around to play. If someone else in your section can do a jazz piece justice, I can't imagine the conductor still wanting you to play it in an unwilling, wood-like fashion.
  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    Old Lou,
    there are certain things that the section can solve. Use those jazz licks as a motivational factor for the up and coming in the band. Turn the deficit into an asset. Don't sit out, trade chairs for that piece with an aspiring 2nd or 3rd player. The whole band will benefit from this form of motivational generosity!
  3. veery715

    veery715 Utimate User

    Mar 6, 2007
    Ithaca NY
    Remember Elvis Presley? While he was hailed as the King and greeted by screaming teenagers, others took note of how he moved his body and condemned him and his music as ungodly or even obscene. Dale's reference to putting some feel into a swing piece nails it.

    While you may dance, oldlou, I doubt you are a very "loose" dancer. Much of the music you learned to "dislike" involves sensually feeling it as if you were to dance to it. Rocknroll, and much jazz (blues, dixieland, swing, latin: cha-cha, samba, bossa nova) is about movement as well as sound. To feel the movement energy of such music requires a loosening up which you are not likely to develop. Take Robin's advice and work it to your and the other player's advantage.

    Let me tell a little story. I was raised on classical music, and Gershwin - Porgy & Bess, and their popular songs. When I was in my late teens, in the US Navy, I was a musical snob. The Beatles exploded on the world and I hated them. I scoffed at them and their music, and my shipmates hadn't a clue why.

    After leaving the military in the late 60s, I, like many others my age and especially those with similar unpleasant Vietnam War experience, discovered Tuning In, Turning On, and Dropping Out, and a lifetime dominated by drug and alcohol use followed. Those chapters are behind me now, and life is full of joy, music, and spritiual grounding,. BUT, when I first crossed into that arena, almost immediately I fell open to all the kinds of music (Country excepted!) which previously I had detested. And I discovered my body and dancing. That is when I began to learn to appreciate the "feel" of jazz and rock. It is maybe the one single aspect of my life choices back then that I am grateful for.

    But don't go out and turn on, ouldlou. What you do, how you do it, and who you are IMO is just fine the way you is. Your conductor, a jazzman, doesn't get it the same way you don't get his stuff. No problem, enjoy what you enjoy; it is fine.

  4. doubleg

    doubleg New Friend

    Aug 13, 2009

    2 Words:


    Buy any Basie album you can get your hands on and listen.... There is no way you won't be able to swing after that... This may sound silly, but no one swings like Basie did, and if your attempting to play jazz, this is as good of place as any to start.
    good luck

    MTROSTER Piano User

    Jan 25, 2007
    Lou. You dont give any indication of the reasons why you don't like jazz etc. Is it because of your religious sensibilities,or is that not a factor? I think the best solution is to play in a group that plays your kind of music. Asking a band leader/conductor to alter the maikeup of his playing ensemble seems a bit too much to ask and would be disruptive.:huh:
  6. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

    Oct 16, 2008

    Maybe a better solution would be to sit down and discuss this with the conductor? Let him know the full story and your proposed solution before actually making a change?
  7. oldlou

    oldlou Forte User

    Aug 28, 2005
    Grand Rapids, Mi.

    I have done this with him. He just can't seem to comprehend that anyone with my level of talent, education and experience doesn't feel or hear in their mind the concept of most forms of jazz. Jazz is his total life. He is a long time top jazz artist and only 'condescends' to play or conduct classical, marches, etc.. I do play some Basie stuff, but, very mechanically, not with the feeling that he and I feel that I should be playing. I just don't 'feel' it.

  8. HSOtrumpet1

    HSOtrumpet1 Pianissimo User

    Nov 28, 2008
    Well... I will offer the only suggestion I have. If everyone remembers how I first acted when I joined, well, let's just say I thought I was the best and that nobody had anything to offer. Brutal corrections from Rowuk and Solar Bell brought me back to "earth," and I am eternally grateful that they did. My posts now are marked with a measure of humility and respect, knowing that what I say is not the "infallible truth." Back to the point - I may be wrong on my theory, so if you are offended by it, please don't take it personally.

    Here's a story about me. I used to be afraid of dancing. Of expressing myself, getting into the emotion of the song, letting my body loose. Being a (not exactly but somewhat) typical American teenager, I knew that this problem with free expression would cause a big obstacle when I had to go out with my friend to a dance or something. I didn't want to look awkward on the dancefloor. So I did what I could. I shut myself up in my room and practiced the most basic steps, trying to put feeling into them and move like other people did. If someone had walked in then, I would have been embarassed, so I locked the door and played the radio softly. I worked so hard trying to just let myself go and move freely. To practice being confident with it I brought in a mirror to my room and looked myself directly in the eye while I practiced moves. Now?... I have worked and I am happy to say that I can now hip-hop in front of a whole dancefloor and not be nervous. Basically, I'm not afraid of expressing myself any more.

    I think we both have the same problem fear of expression. Do what I did. Lock yourself up in your room and practice with a mute or only when your wife is out. Try to loosen up, to sway, and remember that nobody around can see you. Try listening to jazz music before you practice, and then attempt to really feel and sway with it. Nobody can see how foolish you think you look swaying with your eyes closed when the door is closed and locked. Practice alone, because it's hard expressing yourself when you don't know how. But take it small steps at a time.

    Hope that helps.
    Solar Bell likes this.
  9. oljackboy

    oljackboy Pianissimo User

    Feb 26, 2009
    Falls Church, Virginia
    I think the real question is "Oldlou, do you want to try to play with a jazz feel?"
  10. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

    Oct 18, 2007
    The Wide Brown Land
    Old Lou,

    Your Dad must have been a great bloke - to have bothered to include you so strongly in what he obviously firmly believed, is a real credit to him. That you respect his perspective even later in your life means that his view has some merit - otherwise you wouldn't be resisting.

    We all have those things that we wish to pass to our children, and hope that they understand where we are coming from. While many TMers have a real love and a skill in Jazz, we are not all the same. Your problem (if it is such a thing) is to remember that your father is probably very proud of you, and is hopefully expecting you to make a decision based on knowledge but without compromising your 'faith'.

    I raise my hat to you and your dad - I see that you have a conundrum and am sympathetic - but you have to do what you have to do.

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