My new Bach Flugelhorn mouthpiece doesn't fit in my Jupiter flugelhorn

Discussion in 'Mouthpieces / Mutes / Other' started by 1stTrumpet, Nov 5, 2011.

  1. 1stTrumpet

    1stTrumpet Pianissimo User

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    Nov 5, 2009
    Am I missing something here?

    I just ordered a Bach Flugelhorn Megatone 3C and I put it in my Jupiter Carnegie XL Series Flugelhorn and it didn't fit.
    It still plays fantastically though I and I love my tone and range on it.

    Sorry if this is a dumb question, but are Bach Flugelhorn mouthpieces a different size than other flugelhorn's?

    Because I really like the mouthpiece and I don't want to return it, but I don't want to have it falling out all the time and ruin it.
     
  2. Big Daddy

    Big Daddy Mezzo Piano User

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    Mar 22, 2009
    Los Angeles, CA
    Yes. I there are 3 different sizes.

    •LARGE Morse taper
    Commonly known as Standard Taper, the LARGE Morse taper is used by Yamaha, Getzen, Callet, Benge/King/Conn, Holton and older Kanstul 1525 flugelhorns.
    •SMALL Morse taper
    The so-called “Bach Taper.” Bach, Courtois, newer Couesnon, Kanstul 1525 and some European flugelhorns use SMALL Morse taper.
    •FRENCH (straight) taper
    Also known as Couesnon Taper, French taper is used by original Couesnons, Flip Oakes "Wild Thing," Kanstul CCF 925, and original F. Besson flugelhorns
     
  3. 1stTrumpet

    1stTrumpet Pianissimo User

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    Nov 5, 2009
    So is there anything that I can do about it, or thats just the way things are

    Thank you for the help by the way
     
  4. trumpetguy27

    trumpetguy27 Mezzo Piano User

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    May 30, 2008
    Maryland
    1stTrumpet... a good custom brass tech should be able to put your piece in a lathe and adjust the taper to fit... assuming you are saying it's "too big" and barely inserts... if it's considerably too small your options are limited. A LITTLE too small and a shop with plating equipment might be able to put several layers of plating on it.

    I BELIEVE some of the moutpiece makers might do this for you too, but I've never tried. Maybe Curry?

    Hope that helps!

    Scott
     
  5. TrumpetMD

    TrumpetMD Fortissimo User

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    Maryland
    I had same issue with my Getzen flugel and Bach mouthpieces. Getzen offers a flugel leadpipe that fits the Bach taper. It only cost me about $20. Maybe Jupiter does the same. Give them a call.
     
  6. 1stTrumpet

    1stTrumpet Pianissimo User

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    Nov 5, 2009
    Do you know where I could get something like that or what it would be called?
     
  7. ChopsGone

    ChopsGone Forte User

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    Northern California
    You'd have to try Jupiter for a Bach-taper leadpipe. I'd be surprised if they offered one. Charley Melk might be able to come up with one of his GR/Melk leadpipes that would accept either taper, but for about $125 or so, I'd advise taking the easy way out: sell the Bach mouthpiece, order a Flip Oakes Extreme in the correct (large) taper, and enjoy it. I've used one of his mouthpieces in an old Jupiter 846, and it made that thing sound like a perfectly respectable flugelhorn.

    Low-tech solution: you could always wrap a bit of tape around the shank until the mouthpiece fit better. It still won't sound as good as one with the correct shank, but it could tide you over while you wait for your new mouthpiece to arrive.
     
  8. brian moon

    brian moon Forte User

    The receiver should be able to be moved in order to hold the Bach mouthpiece.
     
  9. ChopsGone

    ChopsGone Forte User

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    Northern California
    I don't understand this. A flugelhorn has a short piece of tubing, let's call it a tuning bit as the more fitting of several choices. That's inserted into the end of the leadpipe. But that tuning bit is reamed to accept a mouthpiece with a specific taper. Moving it around won't change the fact that a Bach taper mouthpiece is going to be too loose in a large taper pipe. Except for the GR/Melk aftermarket pipes, which are a compromise taper which will accept many Bach or large taper mouthpieces (not a Flip Oakes Extreme, unfortunately), there's a separate tuning bit required for each taper. Kanstul will sell you a pipe with a different taper; lots of us who own ZKF-1525's have followed Flip Oakes's advice to switch them to French taper. But if Jupiter offers this option, I haven't heard of it.

    Check the Bach mouthpiece manual. For flugelhorns, Bach sticks to its regular Morse taper #1 reamer, but will make French taper shanks on special order. They'd probably make large Morse taper ones as well, but the manual doesn't specify that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2011
  10. brian moon

    brian moon Forte User

    The fluegel leadpipe has a receiver to accept the mouthpiece. It goes over the leadpipe. If it is tapered there is a smaller point that should grip the mouthpiece. It might not grip it very well, however.

    I had a Jupiter flugel. My Bach mouthpiece fit without moving but the Jupiter mouthpiece did play better. If you like the Bach mouthpiece, you could get a Bach receiver fit on to on your Jupiter leadpipe. I would think that if moving the receiver wouldn't work then get another leadpipe that will fit on both the Bach and the Jupiter ends.

    Any of the leadpipe makers should be able to do this.
     

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