Myth or Fact

Discussion in 'Trumpet Repair and Modification' started by SteveRicks, Dec 23, 2011.

  1. nieuwguyski

    nieuwguyski Forte User

    Aug 9, 2004
    Santa Cruz County, CA
    A hand-hammered bell is annealed a number of times during the hammering process, and the tail is annealed a number of times as it is bent. After it's been hammered, spun, and bent it can be annealed again or left somewhat work-hardened. The Benge "Resno-Tempered" bell was left hardened.
  2. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

    Jun 11, 2006
    South Salem, NY
    When there is a dent put into a trumpet two things have happened. One is that the metal has been stretched, and the other is that the metal has hardened. To push the dent out will further harden the metal, and to do the dent job beautifully so that it cannot be seen, the ripples need to be removed. When you remove the ripples you are removing metal without changing the inside. So you end up with tubing of varying thickness.

    This is just as true for a trumpet manufactured one hundred years ago as for one manufactured yesterday.

    I dissuade my customers from extreme cosmetics for this very reason. Yes, of course, some dents need to be taken out. But, within reason.
  3. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

    Sep 20, 2009
    New York State USA
    myth #7 -vintage trumpets are not as good as today's horns
  4. SteveRicks

    SteveRicks Fortissimo User

    Aug 15, 2009
    Ah, Ivan, so you are suggesting that the repair might actually effect the sound? If so, then we are back to what I was taught as a kid.
  5. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

    Jun 11, 2006
    South Salem, NY
    Sure it will. To what degree, and whether or not it is noticeable, depends on where and what the dent is.

    It is a little bit like safety regulations on chemicals. If a dose of 100 will kill, then a dose of 10 has got to have some effect.
  6. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

    Oct 18, 2007
    The Wide Brown Land
    .... and forms of naturapthy where the solutions are so diluted as to contain nothing of the original compound - yet they still have an effect.
  7. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

    Jun 6, 2010
    Unless a ding or dent is obviously obstructing airflow (like a deep one in the leadpipe, or a chunky one on the tuning slide bend), I think it's often better to just leave them alone. It's possible that some of them may even effect the playing/sound in a good way, just like valves that are slightly out of alignment can give you more useful playing characteristics (like adding a little resistance). I've heard of pros putting their valves slightly out of alignment on purpose, to add some resistance to a horn that, for them, is too open.

    I think that, in a general way, it's impossible to say for certain (whether myth or fact). Completely depends on the dent/ding/horn/situation. All dents effect playing characteristics, whether too subtle for you to feel or not. Dings ..... depends on what you define a "ding" to be.

  8. christos

    christos New Friend

    Dec 17, 2011
    i will try and answer with questions... has the dent changed the sound ,the behaviour and the ''feel'' of the horn? can you tell any differences?
    if not, trying to fix the dent only for aesthetic reasons isn't like ''waking sleeping dogs''?
    if there is a change in the sound, how do you like it? if the change in the sound is not what you fancy, get it fixed... but fixing i guess should be about the sound, right?
    i am not really convinced that minor dinks change that much the horn sound...
    as far as i am concerned, the horn serves me, not vice versa. i think that I should be concentrated in issues far more important, e.g. music
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2011
  9. Dale Proctor

    Dale Proctor Utimate User

    Jul 20, 2006
    Heart of Dixie
    I like pretty horns without dents. If I buy one that has them, and I like the way it plays, I'll have the dents removed. If it makes any difference in the horn's playing characteristics, I sure can't tell. Same with bad lacquer - I'll have it redone if it's ugly and I like the instrument. I like 'em pretty, and they make better music when they look nice (I know, it's in my head, but that's where 3/4ths of making music on a trumpet comes from). Worrying about all this small stuff is a waste of time - just play the horn you have and work on getting better at it. Paralysis by analysis...
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2011
  10. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    The man I use to remove dents locally, takes lead pellets and focuses force of shaking the pellets to take out the dent, essentially phyically, re-denting it from the inside to take the dent out. This does not involve heating, and I imagine would keep the thickness of the original brass fairly intact.

    #7: While on the subject, Santa Claus is NOT a Myth; he is a Mythter! Merry Christmas to my TM family!

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