Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by ROGERIO, Jul 11, 2005.

  1. Clarence

    Clarence Mezzo Forte User

    Jun 23, 2005
    san diego
    Rogerio, your killing me with all that good food! :-?

    ROGERIO Mezzo Forte User

    Sep 30, 2004
    Imagine it with a side of BLACK BEANS & RICE.... maybe even a sunday side up egg on top of the steak... ummmm ;-)

    Sorry 'bout that... hey, at least you can go out and get one... I've been eating so much salad lately that my ears are growing and getting all fuzzy... as I hop over to refil my water bottle... :x
  3. Heavens2kadonka

    Heavens2kadonka Forte User

    Jun 17, 2004
    Lebanon, TN
    Okay, heres another question, I pose to the seasoned BT vets. :D

    Do you feel certain era pieces are better suited to the vented on non-vented horns? I know the vents were added in more modern times to help hit more pitches more solidly, but do many era trumpet players turn their noses up at vents, or is it the other way around?

    Also, what are the opinions on the coiled trumpet (italiana or de caccia), as well as the pretzel-shaped trumpets?

  4. mattdalton

    mattdalton Pianissimo User

    Apr 30, 2005
    Newcastle, WA USA
    I don't think the era of the piece has anything to do with suitability of using vents or not. Vents are more a matter of practicality for most players, making it possible to meet the intonation and accuracy expectations of the group they are playing with. No-holes playing requires some additional flexibility from other players in the ensemble. Also, the more lipping required (e.g. C# and Eb, or lots of Fs written in the music), the more likely a modern baroque trumpet player would be to use vents.

    There is a difference in the sound achieved using natural vs. baroque (vented) trumpets. Part of it is related to intonation, but the bigger difference is in the color and "ring" of the notes. People will argue that natural trumpets have a more "regal" tone. Based on the no-holes playing I've done, I think there is some truth to that. It's also accompanied with more difference in color from note to note.

    If you go to Yahoo Groups and read messages in the NaturalTrumpet group you will find some interesting discussions on the difference between baroque and natural trumpet. For some, it becomes "a religious debate." It's a friendly place with good information exchanged, but remember what the group's name is; natural trumpets rule there and vented trumpet discussion is accommodated.

    I have only ever played a coiled trumpet for a few minutes...not enough time to formulate any reasonable opinions. And I've never seen (except in photographs) or played a pretzel shaped instrument, so I can't help you with those questions.

    Anyway, to wrap up this ramble, I think that people should get a no-holes yard (4-hole system) or vent hole covers (3-hole system) and practice regularly without using holes. This is quite doable with easier pieces and works that don't use extreme range, and it gives one a greater appreciation for the differences in vented vs. non-vented. It can also help improve focus/accuracy. Once you get a sense for the sound you want to make and your ability to create the desired musical product with or without holes, then make the decision about which pieces to apply it to.

    Hope this helps.

    ROGERIO Mezzo Forte User

    Sep 30, 2004
    I would be interested to hear what you guys are using as mouthpieces.

    ... and any experiences leading up to what you use...

    Barry sent me several to try, but I'm having a heck of a time making a decision on just one...


  6. gus

    gus Pianissimo User

    Nov 10, 2003
    I think that the issue is not vented holes or not. In fact the issue is that the traditional techniques to construct Baroque trumpet do not go well with the modern. EG. You can play a Vented Nat trumpet and for sure you won't be able to lip the F and A without the hole. That is because they are using normal tubes (seamed). In baroque trumpets the tubes have little imperfections that allow to bend the notes.

    So for me the question is not vented or not, but modern tubes or traditional hand made tubes.

  7. Barry

    Barry New Friend

    Nov 11, 2005
    North Carolina
    Actually modern tubing is seamless, not seamed tubing. Historical tubing is made from sheet brass and soldered, thus creating a seam. The seam and "bumps" in the bore are just one factor in lipping out-of-tune notes. Bell shape, bore, mouthpiece, venturi, etc. are all factors is how well a natural trumpet plays. I've played and owned several trumpets made with modern seamless tubing that lipped better than some made with "historical" tubing. So it just depends on the individual instrument and maker.
  8. AKart

    AKart Pianissimo User

    Jun 24, 2005
    Russia, Moscow
    Baroque trumpeters, lets make friends!

    I'm glad that I've find this topic on the forum.
    I'm a trumpeter from Russia and play both the modern and baroque trumpet.
    Playing the baroque trumpet helps me a lot to "drive" trumpet much more better and also develops many aspects like hearing, musical expression, style of playing etc.
    I play the European model with 3-hole sistem made by Egger (Basel, Switzerland). It has a difference with the fingering showed by mattdalton


    In Russia playing the baroque instruments a not popular. I know only a number of players. And the teaching is not developed at all - there is only a class of L.Guriev in the Moscow conservatory and I'm his single pupil.

    I'd like to find and speak to players about the baroque trumpet playing, change notes, articles etc.

    Some my question: what trumpets do you play, what mouthpieces, wich books and method do you use? (By the way, I use the school by E.Tarr in 3 volumes).

    So, baroque trumpeters, write me!

    My contact info:
    e-mail: [email protected]
    ICQ: 329134344
    Yahoo messenger: [email protected]
    Web-sites: and

    ROGERIO Mezzo Forte User

    Sep 30, 2004
    Welcome Akart!!

    I have just started playing on the Baroque Trumpet (about 2 months). I play on a Egger 3 hole that I purchsed from the Baroque Trumpet Shop in Bern, NC.

    Why is it that the playing of Natural or Baroque trumpets has not been popular in Russia? Do you not see players crossing over from modern instruments to Baroque instruments after performing baroque music?

    Please share your experiences. :-)
  10. mattdalton

    mattdalton Pianissimo User

    Apr 30, 2005
    Newcastle, WA USA
    AKart and Rogerio,
    What works for me may not work for you and your instrument, but I am currently playing a Naumann E5B (available only through Barry at the Baroque Trumpet Shop I believe). I have tried many and played a few different pieces in the past. In addition to the E5B I will also play a couple different Egger mouthpieces I have, depending on the situation. Some mouthpieces will work with one crook but not another. And a mouthpiece that works on my Tomes trumpet may not work that well on my Egger trumpet. The rim on the E5B doesn't suit me the best, but I use it anyway because it gives me the best combination of tone quality, intonation, and accuracy.

    In our baroque trumpet ensemble you will see a variety of other mouthpieces: Egger (sizes 6, 7.5, and 9) , Naumann (Eklund model), and Webb, if I remember correctly. A couple of the other players will even use two mouthpieces - a bigger one when playing the low parts. I don't think that any of us feel we've found our ideal mouthpiece, but we've each found something that works for us.

    I find the biggest barrier to selecting a baroque trumpet mouthpieces that works well is finding one with decent intonation. Many of them are quite flat in the low register, then go sharp up top. Dealing with can introduce tension, which is a real killer when playing baroque trumpet. Yes, you'll need to bend some notes to get them in tune, but you'll want the partials that don't require bending to line up as close as possible. If you can find a piece that plays fairly well in tune, stick with it for a while. You're more likely to find your sound using it than a mouthpiece that makes you work harder. It will also make lipping/bending easier when it's required.

    AKart, like Rogerio, I am anxious to hear about baroque trumpet in Russia. It's great to hear that you are a baroque trumpet pioneer there! :-)

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