Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by rowuk, Jul 1, 2006.

  1. Liad Bar-EL

    Liad Bar-EL Forte User

    Oct 25, 2003
    Jerusalem, Israel
    Thanks V.B., Rowuk, Scott and Trevor.

    I'm going to have to digest this for a bit and do more searching.

    $1,500 is a little much for a valveless horn don't you think?

    Thanks for the links.

  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    Whether a price of $1,500 is justified is based on many factors. The easiest way to calculate:
    How many instruments does this builder sell in a month, how many can he build and what investment in tools needs to be amortised. Does he have any employees to pay? Then comes costs for heating, lighting, medical insurance, pension funds and brass to build the thing (maybe we should let these artists make enough money to go on vacation, visit concerts where real music is played.....).
    Matthew Parker, Michael Münkwitz and the others aren't selling hundreds of these things a month. They need to make enough money to survive and keep it interesting for themselves. Adding all of the above together, I think $1,500 is justified, but maybe out of reach for people not seriously interested.
    Hand made instruments sound much different than inventions using modern bells and other parts from modern trumpets.
  3. talcito

    talcito Piano User

    Feb 18, 2004
    I have heard that many trumpet players suggest that playing rotary trumpets is benefial to playing the "regular" trumpet.

    Does playing the "natural" trumpets have any benefits or is detrimental to us "regular valve" trumpet folks?

    If you go to Bahb Civiletti's site you could hear the most impressive examples of natural trumpet playing.
  4. camelbrass

    camelbrass Mezzo Forte User

    Nov 5, 2003
    Dubai, UAE
    The week I spent with players much better than myself on modern trumpet let alone au naturale led me to believe that, yes, learning to play natural trumpet was beneficial to my modern trumpet playing. That wasn't just my opinion either..I think it was widely held amongst all the workshop's participants most of whom had played natural trumpet for some time.

    It did wonders for my note production and trilling turns into a real art.


  5. aneel

    aneel Pianissimo User

    Sep 28, 2006
    I remember as a student back home in London 20 years
    ago, someone was building nats, buy converting cheap student B and M champion B flats, apperently they were great! The mouthpiece question is still a touchy one,
    most Brits still play modern (4-hole Vanryne and
    Keavey models are designed for use with modern mouthpieces). Haven`t tried many `old` mouthpieces but Egger`s were surprisinly comfortable, but his stuff is a little pricy!
  6. gus

    gus Pianissimo User

    Nov 10, 2003
    Interesting thread. I play a 1 hole very badly. Anyway after a while and talking and hearing much of the "authentic" performance players I think that there is a lot of bull***t on this.

    First, I like how the baroque trumpet sounds and how the guys like Eklund, Immer etc play.

    Second, I think that the whole trend of playing without holes because it is not authentic, and some conductors who can not hear the difference between a trumpet and a accordion is bull***t. I rather think that many of the performance is non authentic. First women should not sing. Second Trombones should not have a tuning slide. Third, instruments should make some wonders to tune because many are tuned in different pitch. I agree completely with Rowuk when he says that lipping notes is the same that playing with vent holes, and that is because when you lip you are playing off center.

    Other bull***t is that if you play with tapered tubes on a baroque trumpet in inauthentic.- Most of us know perfectly that sound is mostly provided by bell shape and mental concept. Anyway I think that there would be more different between a boy and a women than a tapered mouthpipe and a cylindrical one.

    As a conclusion, I would say that I like more the performances with old instruments than with the new ones, and that is because the sound of the strings are more warm, but I also say that the witch chase that is held now in name of authenticity is ridiculous.

  7. aneel

    aneel Pianissimo User

    Sep 28, 2006
    Absolutely Gus authenticity purely for authenticities sake is pointless! althogh I must disagree with the lipping issue. playing long or `longish` notes is feasible without holes but I have yet to meet a nat. specialist who can play fast scalic stuff, eg: last mvt. of Christmas
    Oratorio etc., without holes. This said, how the hell did they do it then? were these notes just played out of tune? Furthermore, regardless of authenticity and what is or is not correct equipment for the original instrument specialist, a conical bored brass instrument does sound different from a cylindrical one. German trombones
    vs. american ones is a good example.
  8. Dumbfounded

    Dumbfounded New Friend

    Mar 30, 2004
    Hi Aneel,

    I like your post. I do not live in Germany. How can I hear the difference between the cylindrical German trombones and the American ones? Is there a site or two that would have this difference to hear?

    Thank you

  9. gus

    gus Pianissimo User

    Nov 10, 2003
    Don Harwood on NY phil replaced his Bach for a German Thein and he plays it always. Other NY players play with German Trombones on German Literature.
  10. aneel

    aneel Pianissimo User

    Sep 28, 2006
    That`s really ironic Gus, a friend of mine in Austria played a Thein trombone and after several weeks in NYC and lessons with Jo Alessi, he returned playing a Conn 8H! There`s a guy in Vienna who researched into
    brass instruments/brass teaching traditons.
    Dr Matthias Bertsch, Institut für Wienerklangstil.
    Not sure, maybe only in german.

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