Need some Repair supply advice

Discussion in 'Trumpet Repair and Modification' started by lovevixen555, Nov 29, 2008.

  1. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

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    Ok here are some of the questions:

    1) Since I am going to end up silver plateing a trumpet I am working on should I use silver solder designed for plated and nickle parts even though they are currently llacquered?
    2) They make silver solder which is all I would think anyone would use but then I say that they also sold 50/50 and 60/40 which I have have used in the past for home plumbing repair's so what is that for on instruments?
    3) They have a variety of flux for regular solder and for silver solder is their a difference?
    4) I saw that they have clear lacquer available or tinted. If I bead blast my son's trumpet and like the raw brass look could I use clear lacquer to seal it up against further oxidation with out completly ruining the raw look?
    5) They offer Johnson's and Lyods for some products is their a big difference in those brands or is it just preference?

    Thanks guys and gals for any help!!!
     
  2. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

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    You have to buy special silver bars to plate. You can't just buy silver solder.

    Silver solder is for permanent solders, while soft solder, which comes from 50/50 to 70/30 is for any soldering you would do on the trumpet. If your trumpet is already silver plated then you should use low temp silver solder instead of soft solder because the lead int he soft solder tends to leak and stain the plating. Silver solder comes in normal or low temp. It also comes with cadmium (toxic) or cadmium free.
    Silver solder is about 98% silver and 2% tin. Soft solder is a mix of lead and tin. The soft solder with an equal melt and flow point is 63/37. That is the easiest o work with.

    Flux comes in a few varieties. For Silver solder you want to use borax flux. It comes in paste form. For soft solder you want to use an acid flux that is liquid, although you can get it in paste form as well.
    Before you start doing a trumpet, practice on some tubing because soldering so there is no visible solders is not something that is easy at all.

    Get clear lacquer or tinted. Lacquer is just to preserve the finish of the raw brass. If you want it to look darker use the tinted stuff.

    Before soldering you have to remove ALL the lacquer from the area to be soldered or the solder will not flow. The reason we use flux is to help clean the area when we heat it. It facilitates the solders flow.

    Before you get into soldering learn how to align a trumpet. If it is aligned so everything is parallel then you get a much more stress free horn. Also to reduce stress in the horn make sure all the braces fit perfectly before soldering. Don't use a lot of pressure and clamp them together. Stress can kill the resonance on a horn. If you do any dent work on the bell stem while it is off the horn remember to tack a brass rod or support the bell bow or it will start to straighten itself.
     
  3. Ed Kennedy

    Ed Kennedy Forte User

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    Silver solder is high temperature stuff. It is used for making braces. If you put a horn together with it you'd be annealing the brass.

    The more tin and less solder, the stronger the joint. Schilke uses 60/40. You can get 60/40 or 70/30 from Ferree's Tools.
     
  4. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

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    Thanks Guy's, So the same type of solder I have used in the past to put copper pipes in a house is that stuff used for putting the plubing on a instrument together. THe silver solder just being used mainly for brace's. We have high temp silver solder adn low temp for Horns that are plated....

    Oh and I knew that silver solder was not used for plateing I just wanted to make sure that it did not matter what I used at this point even if later on I sent it out to be silver plated.

    I will have to have a look at Feree's Tools so far I have used Vocatools.
     
  5. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

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    Silver solder is for making braces, not putting them on the body of the horn. Braces should be moved around to ensure maximum resonance. If you silver soldered a brace on to your horn you wouldn't be able to remove it if it was in a bad spot.
     
  6. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

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    Oh I understand now thanks for clearing that up!!! I have an old Getzen 300 from the 1970's that I am going to use to practice on. It was in a marching band acident so I got it cheap. The bell was badly damaged. I am wanting to work out all this stuff so I can fix old beat up brasswind instruments that I can get cheaply for under privliaged kids that can not afford and instrument but want to be in band. I am also going to work on my oldest boy's Holton 602. It needs a leadpipe and reciver. It also could stand to have it's tuning slide crook replaced. I picked it up on ebay for $50 and that Holton plays excellent for a student instrument it slot's easy and has decent intonation etc......It does everything you want a student horn to do and it definately has some heavy thick brass. If not for the red rot on the underside you would think this trumpet was brand new. So I am going to strip it to bare brass fix replace the leadpipe and reciver and then sand blast the brass. Then coat it in clear cellulose lacquer for that raw brass look. He wants silver but I think I am going to make him earn a silver trumpet like a treat or reward maybe towrads the end of middle school.
     
  7. mike ansberry

    mike ansberry Forte User

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    Preparation and technique are crucial to a good solder job. Both surfaces have to be clean and roughed up with some fine sandpaper. Be sure not to rough up any area that is not in the solder joint. Using the right amount of flux is important. Too much and it will run out onto the other sections of the horn causing the solder to run also. Don't heat the solder. Heat the parts to be soldered evenly, and when they are hot enough to melt the solder, touch the solder to the metal. Use a minimum amount of solder to make a perfect joint. A good solder job requires no cleanup.
     
  8. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

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    Yeah. Soft solder should be melted using the heat from the brass, not the flame. The flame will melt it too fast. A few seconds of flame moving back and forth over the area then apply flux and then a bit more heat and then the solder.
    Remember to aim your flame so you don't unsolder the rest of the trumpet while putting that one last thing on....trust me I have experience with that mistake.
     

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