Never buy a horn from a company without a decent return policy

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by gerardo1000, Jul 4, 2009.

  1. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Mimic,
    limited cash means more brains. You do not need to spend more than $100 to get a decent instrument, but can throw away THOUSANDS.

    I will not get into where a lot of unemployment or social security checks are spent (well except for mentioning alcohol, cigarettes and fast food........). Poor does not mean stupid.

    Most third world countries realize that education IS the solution. In the developed world, i refuse to feel sorry for the careless.
     
  2. mimic

    mimic Pianissimo User

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    Pennsylvania
    Rowuk, I don't remember touching on the topics of unemployment or social security checks. Or on 3rd world countries use of education. I do know that many kids and their parents don't have a good grasp on horn value. Most of my friends who have school age children entering the band program don't make good buying decisions because they don't investigate. They are not usually band geeks themselves and don't spend hours reading forums like I do, I'm not going to hold that against them. They simply have a few hundred dollars, maybe, they can spend on a childs wish. Bright and shiny will always sell better than old and tarnished if you don't know the facts. I also don't have any people with kids in band that I know in my circle that are living on govt. money.
     
  3. gerardo1000

    gerardo1000 Pianissimo User

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    Rowuk, Yes I did buy "cheap" as you say, because I cannot afford to spend much money, but not so cheap: at the end, we are talking about $ 300.00.
    But the instrument that I received is no different from a cheap $ 99.00 chinese trumpet that a friend of mine got from E Bay. Yes, both are poor instruments, but I would complain much less if I had spent $ 99.00 instead of $ 300.00. Any way, my main point is not so much to discuss the quality for the price (lesson learned: better to buy a used instrument for $ 300 than a new one) but instead the fact that the seller does not mention in any form, in his web site, not even in the Terms and Conditions, that sales are final and that he does not accept returns. More over, I made the purchase on the phone, and again the representative on the phone did not inform me about the No Return policy. When I received the cornet, instead, I found an invoice inside the case. On the back of the invoice there was a line that said that all sales are final. Now, I do not find honest to hide the "No return" policy until the sale is completed, and then -afterwards- send an invoice to the buyer that says that all sales are final.
     
  4. lmf

    lmf Forte User

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    Indiana USA
    Gerardo,

    Sorry you had a bad experience and hope you can find legal ways to have your problem settled.

    You certainly have proven that "the devil is in the details" and when buying those details will either help us or haunt us.

    Best wishes,

    Lloyd

    l
     
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
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    Germany
    Gerardo,
    don't get me wrong. I choose to shoot straight and not beat around the bush. IF your product was misrepresented, the Better Business Buro is your next step. There are laws in the United States that protect even the careless purchaser.

    The bottom line here is that YOU could not have done much research on a little known horn or manufacturer. You could not have solicited help from someone that knew better like a decent teacher, and now have hopefully learned a lesson.

    I thank you for posting here. What you have gone through is exemplary for many.

    As far as the quality of the instrument goes, I am not sure how YOU can judge its quality. If you are a beginner, intonation is an issue with most horns. Some of the finest trumpets have bells much thinner than a can of baked beans and the standard 7C that comes with many quality instruments is also "unplayable" for some. If you are not a beginner, then we go back to the issue of why you bought unknown cheap from an ex-piano company.

    I googled Schiller briefly. Schiller Instruments
    It is clear that this is now a Chinese company and that they never had a tradition of brass instruments. The only reference to Frankfurt is that the company was established in 1884 in Frankfurt and built pianos. The products carry a two year parts and one year labor guarantee. So if you have an issue, make a claim.
     
  6. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    Monroe Ct.
    I went to their site. Here is a little from the site.


    Schiller Today.
    Continuing to innovate Schiller Musical Instruments today by manufacturing and engineering brass and woodwind instruments. The Schiller Instruments are sold to musicians all around the world. All of the Instruments are made with a Hands on Approach and the instruments are affordable to all musicians. Schiller is now worldwide based company with engineering in Germany and corporate offices in the USA and Shanghai, China.

    If you read this there is a huge clue.
    I couldn't find a way to buy a trumpet. I am guessing that you bought it from a dealer. Over the phone would most likely mean a credit card. If so the credit card company can get your money back.
     
  7. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    Dec 30, 2003
    Monroe Ct.
    Sue them in small claims court:

    Mail:
    Schiller Instruments USA
    1055 Main St.
    Stevens Point, WI 54481
     
  8. mimic

    mimic Pianissimo User

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    Pennsylvania
    Geraldo's experience is what I've seen others go through. I, being a band geek, researched my childrens instruments before buying them. That's just my thing. Alot of other people don't have the knowledge or realize the necessity of research, a horn is a horn is a horn, they all look the same, etc. This is why I worry about the proliferation of cheap horns on the market. If you just look at the new market it's even worse. I have an almost new Bach 300 that my son plays in elementary band.....it is a piece of junk and is in like new shape well maintaines by me. I paid 550 for it 15 years ago. That same horn is now over 900 new. What a rip-off. Even a Bach 200 pushes 2000 now. Both of these are better horns than the WalMart chinese stuff but tell that to a non horn person just looking for a horn for their kid to beat around at elementary school, living on a tight budget. This is the realistic choice facing most parents today and does not bode well for the better mfgs.
     
  9. mimic

    mimic Pianissimo User

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    I'm sorry, it's Gerardo!
     
  10. mimic

    mimic Pianissimo User

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    May 3, 2009
    Pennsylvania
    Here's a thought. A comparison has been made before on this forum between instrument mfgs. and car companies. Using that we saw how the american mfgs had to learn how to build smaller, more fuel efficient cars and bring up their quality and lower the price. They were forced into it by competition and the changing market. Maybe that is how some of the respected names in the horn bus. will go. Just as there is a set market for ferrari's , bentleys and all the other high end cars that's not going to go away there is a permanent top tier horn market, that occupies alot of forum time. There is nothing to stop the best mfgs. from producing entry level horns at entry level prices and maintain their high end horns. It would be nice to see the revenue stream go into these mfgs. rather than whatever firm owns Schiller and others of that type.
     

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