New classical horn trend?

Discussion in 'Horns' started by Bugleboy21, Jan 7, 2006.

  1. Bugleboy21

    Bugleboy21 Pianissimo User

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    Feb 23, 2005
    Fort Eustis, VA
    Trends: screecher mouthpieces, heavy-blank mouthpieces, stripped-blank mouthpieces, Bb or C?, Raw brass-laquer-silver?, heavyweight and lightweight. Who do these trends follow-the pro or the amatuer? I've noticed that Yamaha's new artist series horns have bells that when built with the variable thickness, tends to be a lighterweight horn. John Hagstrom even says the the Chicago model is lighter. We all know that lightweight Bach's, Yamaha's, Schilke's (I'm excluding Monette from this discussion for a reason) are easier to shade the sound as opposed to the heavyweights. However, most students and amatuers prefer the heavier horns because they haven't yet developed the finesse that the top pros do. I understand that the most pros don't want to fight a horn to get different colors and with their finesse, they have ability to ensure that a light horn doesn't spread the sound out. For example, when I was in college, I played a 239H C and a 43 Bb. I never played my 43 for any classical playing as it was too bright. As I've gotten older and (like most players who continue to mature) the core to my sound is getting more solid. As a result, the 43 bell isn't too bright anymore. In fact it sounds like the same broad, clear, crisp sound that comes out of my 229GH C (my current C). And like the C tpt, the ease of color shading is as easy. The US Army purchased a new set of 72*'s for our section, but I am reluctant to use it for quintet or concert band. Although lightweight in nature, the sound is too dark for classical (sounds incredible for my lead playing though!) So, I would like to open this up for discussion: Who is experiencing this phenomenon of being able to control lighter horns better? Do you think this is a cause of horns being manufactured to sound a particular way or are more players getting solid enough to sound the same on every horn if they want to? Is there a trend beginning of lighter horns and if so, who will benefit? You all on TM are great posters, so I am looking forward to some interesting discussion!
     
  2. Bear

    Bear Forte User

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    Apr 30, 2004
    USA
    Hmmm... Some very good points brought up in that first query. I play on a lightwieght horn for my lead/jazz/rock gigs, however almost everything else is done on a conventional weight horn. Most people in my neck of the woods are on conventional wieghts. Though every player will have "their" sound, I think the weights issue is just more of a factor of easiness. Meanin', it might be easier for someone to accomplish such and such on a light weight compared to a heavy weight, etc. The whole mpc issue... I play everything on a 3C and it's always worked for me. Sure, I may get a killer chart and need to pull out something a lil shallower, or vice versa, I may play M5 and need a darker/broader sound so I'll get something deeper.

    Anyways, I'm lookin' forward to hearin' some opinions on this. How's the weather there in Ft. Hood? I used to live there when my parents were stationed there. Went to Ellison High in Killeen. I'm up in Lubbock, TX now. Take care.
     
  3. Bugleboy21

    Bugleboy21 Pianissimo User

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    Feb 23, 2005
    Fort Eustis, VA
    Bear,

    Weather here is unusually warm it was 84 the other day. So, you were Screaming Eagle, eh? I actually graduated from Cove in 94. After going to Southwest Texas St (now Texas St. UGH!), I played in Austin, SA, and Houston. Finally, I joined the army band and was stationed in SA, then Ft. Hood. Funny how things worked out. I left the area to explore a career in music and I end up where I started! LOL Are you in school up there at TT? Take care.

    Larry
     
  4. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    Dec 30, 2003
    Monroe Ct.
    From my experience I think you have it backwards. I want a dark sound when I play classical and a bright cutting sound when I play lead trumpet with a big band.

    A lot of people talk about the trumpet cutting through an orchestra but I like to blend. Not just with the trumpets but with all the interments.

    For me the heaver interments get any sound I want and the lighter ones get a bright thin sound.
     
  5. cornetguy

    cornetguy Mezzo Forte User

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    Sep 12, 2005
    Saint Paul, MN
    Same applies with me as teh last poster. I have a Schilke B1 that although there are things I like about it seems really bright to me, and lacks the core to the the sound that my Bach 37 has. (considerably heavier then the Schilke)
     
  6. Bugleboy21

    Bugleboy21 Pianissimo User

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    Feb 23, 2005
    Fort Eustis, VA
    I'm really speaking about the agility of a horn to get from "bright" to "dark"...I hate those words. How about less overtones to more overtones? I understand that different horns have a different overall sound, but is it easier to make a light horn produce less overtones than to have a heavy horn produce more overtones? For the purposes of this discussion, let's stick to a person playing live in a big venue. Studio work is a different animal! Thanks for the comments!
     
  7. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    Dec 30, 2003
    Monroe Ct.
    If I play a solo in front of a band and play my Bach it is edgy and I have trouble making it dark if I can at all.

    If I play my heavier Monette it sounds dark and I have to make the sound brighter if I want a change.

    I can make the Monette brighter easier than making the Bach dark sounding.

    I read something about leaving Monette out of this but this is all that I have to compare.
     
  8. Bugleboy21

    Bugleboy21 Pianissimo User

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    Feb 23, 2005
    Fort Eustis, VA
    B15M.....I left Monettes out because even though they are heavier, Dave's designs and constant pitch center mouthpieces allow a player to be completely flexible. A Bach trumpet that weighed as much as a 900 series monette would not sound bright at all! LOL However, there is a reason why Schlueter, Manny, Urban, and others can play Monettes and make them do anything they want! Jack Laumer, my mentor, uses an STC in the teen #'s if I remember right...what a variety of sounds he could make! He also uses this horn to play 2nd in the Austin Symphony, with the principal on a Bach (which has worked for almost 20yrs). If I had the money I would invest in it as well. I really do believe that Monettes are the most versitille instrument on the market, despite what people say about the Bach sound vs Monette sound. But, for the purposes of this thread I wanted to talk about how players are achieving the same result on non-Monette horns. Great comments though!
     
  9. Bear

    Bear Forte User

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    Apr 30, 2004
    USA
    Yes Sir,
    It's kinda sad that it's JANUARY and still in the 80's eh? I was a Screamin' Eagle, graduated in '99. Yes sir, I'm up at TTU but I'm done with undergrad (this semester) so I'll be lookin' for a grad school.. prolly in Dallas area. Would like to find a job in either the Houston or Dallas area (NOT in the city, would rather be in outerlayin' areas...Music Education) but a dream of mine is playin'... so we'll see.

    To keep the thread on topic, I've played a variety of horn and mpc combo's and I think that though a lot of people are tryin' the lighter horns, they can still make the big, resonant, classical Herseth wall of sound on 'em. To each their own I say.

    Tim
     
  10. dbacon

    dbacon Mezzo Piano User

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    Oct 24, 2003
    Scottsdale, AZ.
    Weight is just one way for a trumpet or mouthpiece to emphasize certain overtones more than others, shape, materials, many ways trumpet makers have to make an instrument bring out lower or higher overtones. I have a Lawler that Roy made that's very projecting without that tight/bright sound I get on other trumpets. I use a Bach I've altered for whatever legit playing I do. It encourages me to play the sound and style needed for that environment.

    We live in the best of times for equipement, you can get pretty much anything you want.

    But you do have to know what you want!
     

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