New Member - P.E.T.E by Warburton

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by rmccaffr, Mar 27, 2014.

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  1. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    From the Warburton website:

    Let's see - the P.E.T.E. is endorsed by the likes of John Faddis and Roger Ingram, but hey, don't take their word for it - what do they know about playing trumpet, right?
     
  2. Richard Oliver

    Richard Oliver Forte User

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    Pat, (again) it's TM's version of "It's Duck Season!" "It's Rabbit Season!" Arguing just for the sake of it.
     
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, let's see. If I have chops like Jon Faddis or Roger Ingram, the playing field for other things that "may" or "may not" be useful changes quite dramatically. In the case of a working professional, maybe this is like a warm down instead of a build up. Most of the people buying this thing are not playing enough to need to "warm down".

    I really have nothing against the PETE. I have a big problem with players that do not have a well rounded, integrated approach without it. Adding the PETE to good chops and playing habits is surely useful for most. Playing without integration is bad news for those without those critical habits. A PETE is not better than "nothing".
     
  4. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    Just because something is of benefit to the top 1% of players, does not necessarily mean that it will assist us mere mortals. As an example: How do you think Aunt Sally would go driving an Indy car through Manhattan? Come to think of it, that is the style of some cab drivers!
     
  5. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    The accented wording says it all: It appears that Warburton is trying to sell their product, don't cha think? I mean, the people at Warburton need to feed their families too.
     
  6. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    My question to you would be to ask how you could possibly know who does or doesn't have a well-rounded, integrated approach to playing the horn? Aside from that, why do you really care to the point where you have a "big problem" with it? I quoted Roger Ingram for the reason that he recommends it to his STUDENTS - not other pro players who use it as a warm down. And aside from that, who says they use it as a part of a warm down?

    Terrible analogy. A better analogy might be an athlete promoting a particular type of athletic shoe or piece of exercise equipment, or a racecar driver promoting a particular SUV - even they don't drive their Formula 1 cars through Manhattan.

    Here's a question: has anyone on the forum done a documented, systematic test incorporating one into their regular routine? As with any kind of product like this, the proof is in the results, but I'd venture to guess that most of them that have been sold have only been fiddled with, so any "results" or evidence is going to be anecdotal at best. Just the same, I doubt if it is hurting anyone. Given the reasoning and concept behind it, I'd venture to guess if the pendulum had to swing one way or the other, it would probably help more than hurt.
     
  7. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Patrick, we have no argument. I know of NO documented anything on practice aids and don't even know that if I wanted to document myself, how it could be representative and fair. We do agree fully on the fiddling part - that is not just a problem with practice aids, but also with the practice habits of the majority of non-professional players that I have spoken or worked with.

    The jury is not out on my personal experience that no practice aid helps integrate ears, brains and face. Without the resonating horn, the ears are not getting the signal to send to the brain which in turn tells the face what to do. That integration is what is sorely missing and what continuously gives me results with the students that come to me at various stages of playing quality. Getting them away from less productive methods and focussed on that integration gets them good faster than anything else that I know of.
     
  8. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

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    OK, I am not a pro.

    However, I have noticed that simply playing on a different mouthpiece than usual for an hour
    can adversely affect my next playing session on my normal mouthpiece.

    Logically, then, if something as seemingly harmless as changing to a different mouthpiece
    for practice can mess with my normal setup, I can imagine that using some unproven
    exercise might mess things up too.

    It supports rowuk's statement that "NON-integrated practice" may not be such a good idea.

    my 2c,

    Greg

    PS: One may say I don't have a very good embouchure, that's why.
    One would be partially right: I don't have a perfect embouchure. I wish I did, so
    I could play 4 hour gigs without getting tired. I don't, but I am not about to change it
    without frequent instruction from a professional trumpet instructor who
    has proven success with changing embouchures. And there aren't any
    near my home, so I work with the one I've got.
     
  9. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    You raise some great points. I've messed with my DIY PETE some, but not a lot. What I have noticed is that it does seem to help overall chops strength and maintenance of stamina, but a fair amount of real practice has to be employed to keep things supple and focused.

    Regarding some other techniques I've seen used by others in the past, chiefly mouthpiece and leadpipe buzzing, and to a lesser degree, practicing with a whisper mute, personally, I have found almost no benefit to using any of it. Buzzing the mouthpiece and leadpipe (for me) changes my chops focus because they have to function differently to produce sound with the rest of the horn than they do without it. Practicing with a whisper mute does a similar thing by adding resistance that you have to adjust for, and that is no longer there once the mute is pulled.

    My preference has always been to practice with just the horn, and as often as not, I don't use music or any kind of prescribed exercise if I'm working on basic fundamentals. That way I can really focus in on what's going on between just me and the horn, without distraction, so that I can dial in and fine tune the mechanism. At the end of the day the mechanical aspect of playing music on the trumpet is a combination of some fairly basic fundamentals - tone production, articulation, flexibilities, and finger coordination with articulation and flexibilities are the backbone of the mechanical aspect of trumpet playing, and you don't need a bunch of method books to work on the base mechanics. Getting the brain involved to coordinate reading with playing is another matter, but that's a different subject for a different thread.
     
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  10. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    The lesson is that the trumpet is a resonant object and the more we let the RESONANCE do the work, the better off that we are. We HEAR the trumpets sound with our ears, our brain analyses and tells the lips and breathing what to do. It is a servo that constantly uses the feedback to optimise the work to be done. That is simply how everything works!

    I am not down on the PETE but do question the value IF the rest of our routine is not based on integration AND we are well on our way.
     

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