New or Old, which is better?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Trumpet Dreamer, Nov 14, 2010.

  1. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

    Jun 6, 2010
    The Olds Ambassador is a tank.

    That's why those two pictured on the previous page are Ambassador players through and through. That's probably also why the Olds Ambassador was a backup horn for so many pros over the years ..... If the Ambassador gets kicked off the stage, accidentally, and hits two pillars and several partons on the way to the ground and then gets run over by a hotdog cart .... You just send someone to retrieve it and keep playing with it.:dontknow:

    Last edited: Nov 18, 2010
  2. veery715

    veery715 Utimate User

    Mar 6, 2007
    Ithaca NY
    PLUS, you'll need to finish the gig because the $$ will be needed to fend off the wrongful injury lawsuits from those two patrons and the hotdog man, and the property damage suit from the club owner.:cool:
  3. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

    Jun 6, 2010

    It can get complicated. That explains the worry lines on those guys on the last page.

    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
  4. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

    Aug 16, 2009
    Jackson NC
    I get to thinking ... I actually do this sometimes ... and come to realize that 2 factors have removed the reknown and aclaimed artisan craftspersons. These are age and war.

    Still, in recent years, corporate re-organization has "flushed" many into the sewers.

    I just can't see where cybernetics alone can yet produce an instrument the quality as is consistent and earns the true acclaim of professional performers and equally those of students as such would be available at a reasonable cost to both.
  5. SmoothOperator

    SmoothOperator Mezzo Forte User

    Jul 14, 2010
    The greats always have to play a modern line, so that they can get royalties from selling new horns.

    I seriously doubt that the mass produced versions of the Great players trumpet really have much to do with the original. Maynard Ferguson's Jet-tone mouthpieces seem like a good exception though since they were actually very different from other lines out there.
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    That is a pretty naive stand. Your friend has obviously never played both.

    There also is no hype on the Monettes except for the stupidity issued by many that have never played them. Dave Monette makes about 6 horns a month, has a waiting list of 12-18 months - and he is doing no real advertising other than his website and facebook. His horns are built the way HE thinks that they should sound. If you like that, cool. If not, that's OK too.

    The Monette pitch center concept is not found in any other horn. The Monette sound concept is also not found in any other brand. Even the other heavy instruments like Harrelson and Taylor have a completely different concept.

    I own a Monette and have had Dave's instruments since 1998. Once you get used to his horns, the differences to all other brands becomes apparent. Once you have experienced that, you realize how such cheap comments really have no connection with reality.

    There are very accomplished players here at TM (like Trent Austin and Eric Veldkamp) that tried Monette and decided against the concept. That is legitimate. You will never hear them talk the horn down or make some cheap instrument "the same without the hype".

    Back to the original question: Many new horns are better. Precision machinery makes the horns more consistent. Once the artisan has indentified the mix of parameters, computers help him repeat those results in a way NEVER possible in the past. Bells and pipes are bent with frozen soapy water instead of lead, the fit and finish of the precision manufactured pieces is so good that solder is not required to "fill in the holes" or compensate for other inaccuracies. It is possible to mass produce state of the art tight valves - to a degree never possible before. Intonation has also improved dramatically on the higher pitched instruments. Alternate fingerings are a thing of the past.

    If you need a miracle, a vintage horn can give you the story. Granted, there are fine instruments from every period. In the past, they were more the exception rather than the rule. Pros have always picked THEIR horn out of a batch.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2010
  7. Trumpet Dreamer

    Trumpet Dreamer Mezzo Forte User

    Aug 14, 2010
    Jazz Town, USA
    Since you are a Monette owner, it is probably easy to take issue with the above. It's the same way with a driver who owns a Mercedes Benz. To get the truth about the car, talk to a former MB owner.

    And my friend is a consummate professional who has played nearly every brand of trumpet, including Monette. His statement to me was not so much degrading the company as it was pointing out the virtues of the products from Austin Winds.

    I'm happy for you that you are happy with Monette.
  8. terrytuner

    terrytuner Pianissimo User

    Sep 23, 2010
    I've had a Strad model 37 (vintage 74) since it was new. Still a great horn. My daughter, and now my grand daughter have used it. I recently purchased a 74 Getzen Eterna, Severinsen model. The Getzen is better than the Bach. Love it! I also have a 1925-30 era H. H. White trumpet and a 61-65 H. N. White (King) cornet. I haven't played anything other than student line stuff since the late 70's. I've noticed that vendors in my section of rural TN don't have top line horns in stock any more and I've not shopped in a major market in a long time.
  9. Hoosier303

    Hoosier303 Pianissimo User

    Nov 2, 2008
    I still play my Bach Mercedes circa 1968 that I've had since it was new. I'm always on the lookout for another one, they're great.
  10. larry tscharner

    larry tscharner Forte User

    Apr 30, 2010
    dubuque iowa
    My opinion...I think it is kind of like the new/old car debate. You have both sides of the issue and supporters of both are sure of their position. Old craftsmanship and quality materials vs New technology and manufacturing quality. Certainly you cant make a sweeping statement that one is better than the other. Everyone can love a vintage hammer with character and rich patina. Everyone can love a brand new top quality pro horn for its fantastic performance ability. A brand new Buick wont turn heads like a beautiful 58 but I would rather be in the new car with all its advanced features at 100mph.

    I have both new and old. I appreciate and admire the beauty of a vintage horn, but I play the new for the better performance. Best wishes.

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