New or Old, which is better?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Trumpet Dreamer, Nov 14, 2010.

  1. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Some people confuse "moderator" here. I am a member just like all of you. The difference is, if something gets out of hand, I can step in and do a bit more to change it. I do not "moderate" discussions unless they get out of hand. I do not delete contrary opinions, I do question things that I consider to be wrong. Simple qualified arguments can change my mind.

    My opinion has nothing to do with being a moderator. I take issue with anyone that says that high ticket means hype. That is stupid. The poster quoted a supposedly competent 3rd party. I will maintain, that person never compared the two and is not "competent" enough to make that claim. The differences between Monette and Austin are very easy to hear and feel. One does not need to be a pro for that.

    Finally, it is always interesting to read what comes up when we reduce the argument to the simple truth - then it often gets personal as other arguments have been diffused.

    Better suited is individual taste. That taste can be honed with years of practice. That refines the things that we desire. Opinion and fact are only the same through experience or incredible luck. Most of us need experience as luck with the trumpet is reserved only for the extremely talented.
     
  2. Big Country

    Big Country New Friend

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    That was very well said ROWUK. I totally agree.
     
  3. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

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    JediYoda,

    How did you manage to get a date with a Monette? Bribery? Sweet talk?

    I'm enjoying all these analogies to women ........ The Monette is like a high maintenance girlfriend (think, Heidi Klum), while the highly reasonable Olds Ambassador is a cheap date (the girl next door).

    Turtle
     
  4. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    New or old, Monette or Kanstul, how long until you know you have the right trumpet?
    There is a lot to talk about here.

    I have never liked the old trumpets or cornets with the exception of Bach. From what Ive played, I get the feeling that a small bore was the way to go back then. I haven't played a lot of them so, it's hard to make a judgement for sure. I think we have gone a long way in the last 15 years. Maybe to go backwards. The Chicago Symphony working with trumpet makers to find a trumpet design that works for them. Are we just going back to what Mr. Bach already figured out?

    I think Dave Monette spent the early years relearning what Mr Bach knew. Now I think Dave is way past Mr Bach. Dave Monette is an inventor like Edison. Always looking for something new. Other makers copy and do a good job but, I think you need to know why Dave does things to really put the trumpet together and have a true copy. There is a thought process and history of trial and error that the other makers can't copy.

    Picking a trumpet is hard. For me anyway. I can't just hold it in my hand and know. I think I have to use it for about a week or two to have an idea. When I go to Reyburn in Boston, they put me in a little practice room filled with foam. When I get home in the big room, the trumpet sounds way, way different. When I get to the concert hall early and play, again, different. When the band shows up and I'm in the section, yes different. My first real trial of a trumpet was at Osmun. This was about 20 years ago. I went into the basement and tried trumpets. A lot of them and came home with a Bach C 236 (256?)that doesn't work for me. The next time I tried a trumpet was at the Monette factory. I spent a day there. I got there at 8 AM and didn't leave until about 6 that night. I played all day and came away with a trumpet that didn't work for me.

    The trumpet I play now (B-flat) was purchased at ITG. I tried about 5 different Monette trumpets in a room full of professional heavy hitters. I'm not kidding, I think there were people there from all the major symphonies. At one point Manny L. stopped about 5 feet from my bell and listened. Back on topic, I was intimated and played for about half an hour. Based on history from my old trumpet and a prayer that I was making the right decision, I bought it. I guess I'm lucky because it's still working.
     
  5. mike ansberry

    mike ansberry Forte User

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    ...
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2010
  6. JediYoda

    JediYoda Mezzo Piano User

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    Yes!! I totally agree!!
     
  7. gglassmeyer

    gglassmeyer Piano User

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    My opinion is that there are plenty of fine new horns out there that anyone should be able to buy a new horn that performs to their standards. If you're really stumped with the normally accepted standard pro offerings from Bach, Yamaha, Schilke etc... You can go to the custom makers and get a horn tailored to your needs.
    Old horns can (and often are) be great players, but may require repairs which can be difficult because the parts aren't in stock. I do really like the engraving and artistry of the older horns. Old horns are best purchased when you can see and inspect them, I would always be leery of an online transaction.
     
  8. jbkirby

    jbkirby Forte User

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    Dothan, Alabama
    I've read posts that state that a trumpet has to find you, not you find a trumpet. I have more than enough vintage horns, and no new ones, save the cheap pocket trumpet, and I don't see a new horn in the forseeable future. I enjoy playing all of my horns, but only one feels intuitive, as though it is an extention of me, and that is the 1969 38B Connie. If I were to be in a position to purchase a new one, I would want to try a Kanstul 990, a Kanstul version of the 38B. Since I am not professional as many of you are, it would suit all of my needs in the absence of the 38B.

    Since a horn has to find you, play several, new and vintage, and see which one says, "I'm the one" and don't be too concerned with whether it is new or vintage.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

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    What about INTONATION???

    You read and hear about intonation issues, especially with very old horns, and how some of them seem to match up best with mouthpieces of their era ...... And current advertising can lead you to believe that there have been improvements in intonation (especially with THEIR horns!!). HAS intonation improved in trumpets? If new trumpets are generally designed and built with better intonation than older ones, that would be a strong reason for some to go with new.

    Turtle
     
  10. VetPsychWars

    VetPsychWars Fortissimo User

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    They're not built with better intonation, just different.

    My "new" Buescher Lightweight 400 is so good that you don't really have to pull the third slide for D, just C#.

    As long as the horn isn't complete garbage, you should be able to play it in tune after you get used to it.

    Tom
     

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