New Vincent Bach Strad - help selecting

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Benjobox, Nov 5, 2013.

  1. Benjobox

    Benjobox New Friend

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    Nov 4, 2013
    Hey everyone,

    I'd like to buy a new pro trumpet, and am found drawn to Vincent Bach Strad.

    I've tried out a few recently - a 37 and 43 bell in both reverse and standard leadpipe, and also the LR190 43 (which is several hundred more expensive.) I spent a while trying these out, but could not pick out any discernible difference between the sound of any. I felt some should have felt distinctly 'darker' or more 'open blowing' than others, but could not pick this out.

    Bearing in mind I'm looking for an instrument to be used in orchestral/symphonic settings rather than brass band, would I be recommended going for a 37 or 43? Or is there virtually no difference. And same goes with the reverse leadpipe..

    I was told about (and played) the Bach LR190 43B. It's going for £2300 ish and has a bronze bell and rather lovely engraving. What benefits from this would I realistically get over the regular Strads, and is it a reasonable purchase in your opinion? And the Artisans too..

    Finally, resale value of a Bach kept in very good condition. I've heard they hold up well - is there any truth in this?

    And please, I know it's tempting, but there's no really point in telling me to get the trumpet "that feels right for me." As I've explained, I'm struggling with this, which is why I'm asking.

    Many thanks for any help
     
  2. chenzo

    chenzo Piano User

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    Jul 18, 2008
    Aust
    my choice would be a standard 37.....a good all round trumpet that will fit in most situations .....
     
  3. Evergrey_rocks

    Evergrey_rocks Piano User

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    Aug 18, 2013
    Well, first off, have you tried out anything that isn't Bach? (Important question)

    I can attest to them holding resale value. I bought mine used for less than $1000. It was a model 37 made in 1997. I owned it for 1.5 years and I sold it off a few months ago for $1200 giving me a $300 profit. Mine had about 97% of the plating left (a few blemishes in the finish here and there) and was in excellent mechanical condition, better than some of the newer models my peers have. I sold it due to personal preference for the King Silver Flair (which is what I have now).

    I can give you pros and cons about Strads:
    Pros:
    -Most popular Pro level horn on the market
    -Most commonly used in symphonies and orchestral work, but can be used in basically any musical situation (I used mine for Marching and Jazz on top of symphonic stuff)
    -Great resale value
    -Solid build to it

    Cons:
    -Very inconsistent (They are handmade, so you should probably try EVERY Bach in stock in like 4 music stores just to get a feel for which is the best for you)
    -(My personal experience) The valves on mine were fast compared to my beginner horn, but sluggish compared to other Strads and pro horns.
    -In my experience, it took a lot more air to make a sound on that horn than it does on my Flair.

    If you've only tried a few Bachs, I suggest you try a ton more Bachs, but also try out other manufactures like Yamaha, King, Conn, Getzen, Cannonball, and Kanstul. Those companies (except Yamaha) are often under-marketed and under-valued and can be had a much lower price and give you better quality. If I had to pick 2 of the companies I suggested, I'd say King and Yamaha. Reasons: Yamaha is also popular among pros and are great all-round horns also. They are MUCH more consistent than Bach because they are machine made and I think they're built better. I just have never owned one, so I'm only telling you about Yamaha from play-testing and looking in-store. King isn't as popular as it once was, however, their quality remains. Their horns are perhaps the most solidly built horns (I still have my beginner horn, the King 601 and my current main horn, the Silver Flair). The horns produce really nice sounds and can be had for steal-of-a-deal prices. The best thing about them is the ease of play they provide.

    For the best results, take regular trips to music shops and try out every Intermediate and Pro horn they have. I say Intermediate as well because the Silver Flair is intermediate, yet it's better than some of the pro horns my peers play on. In fact, one guy I know has a Monette and he likes my Flair better than his Monette!
     
  4. musicalmason

    musicalmason Forte User

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    Dec 14, 2003
    Pa
    For your uses, I recommend the standard model 37, you may also want to try some 72s, they are quite nice for concert band playing. On a side note, regarding the above post: $1200-1000=200, not 300.
     
  5. amzi

    amzi Forte User

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    Feb 18, 2010
    Northern California
    If you're interested in Bach I will very much suggest that you check out used horns. A new horn depreciates so if you buy a used horn unless you hang on to it for a long time you're going to take some sort of hit if you sell it in 3 or 4 years. A little wear on an older horn not only translates into a substantial savings, but provided you don't wreck it or substantially overpay you can almost be assured of recovering the purchase price if and when you sell. One more thing,\the early Elkhart and Mt. Vernon horns are generally more highly regarded than the later horns.
     
  6. Evergrey_rocks

    Evergrey_rocks Piano User

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    Aug 18, 2013
    I said less than $1000...meaning not exactly 1000, but my profit was closer to 300 than it was to 200. Due to certain factors (The guy I bought it from threw in some extras for more money and keeping those extras raised the profit I made on the horn when I sold it).
     
  7. jengstrom

    jengstrom Pianissimo User

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    Oct 17, 2009
    Rochester, NY
    The 37, for better or worse, is the standard in the industry and the one most of the other makers try to copy (at least the American ones). However, I am not fond of the the blow on the 37; it closes up as you approach high C, at least for me. I like the blow of the 43 better. Some people will say that the sound of the 43 doesn't fit into orchestral work well. However, I played a 43 lightweight as my main horn for 35 years, using it for everything, including orchestra, concert band, pits, quintets, and big band. Yes, it's a bit brighter than a 37, but it still sounds like a Bach and it's very, very versatile.

    My 2 cents.

    -John
     
  8. TrumpetMD

    TrumpetMD Fortissimo User

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    Oct 22, 2008
    Maryland
    Last time I was looking for a new horn, I played a good two-dozen Bachs. I found no problems with consistency, with the Bachs I played being on par with the Schilke, Yamaha, Getzen, etc. A lot of people like to claim there are consistency problems. But I suspect that most people are just repeating what they've heard, or what they want to believe.

    Also, I'm not sure I agree with your assessment that a "machine made" Yamaha is more "consistent" than a "handmade" Bach, because the Yamaha is "machine made".

    The OP wants to purchase a Bach. There's nothing wrong with that. If he wanted to purchase something different, that'd be okay, too.

    Regarding the OP's original question, most would suggest that a standard weight 37 would be the best all-around trumpet. It might help to go back with a friend (or maybe your teacher), who can listen to you play, to see if he/she can hear any difference and give you some constructive feedback. If not, they my suggestion would be to go with a standard weight 37 with the standard leadpipe.

    Mike
     
  9. Evergrey_rocks

    Evergrey_rocks Piano User

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    Aug 18, 2013
    When I was looking for a Strad, I played on 5 Model 37's and none of them were close to feeling the same. They all responded differently. That is what I mean by inconsistency. They were all good, but they weren't all uniform. Yamahas on the other hand, I played 2 Allegros and 2 or 3 Xenos and the Allegros felt identical with each other as did the 3 Xenos. They were all exact duplicates of their respective models. I wasn't spreading what I've heard, I actually have felt it.

    I'm not trying to sway the OP to not get a Bach, I'm just trying to encourage him to try out as many different horns as he can, regardless of manufacturer, so he gets the best idea of what he wants in a horn.
     
  10. Benjobox

    Benjobox New Friend

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    Nov 4, 2013
    Thanks for your reply. Would there be any situations into which a 43 or a 72 would not fit and if so what would these be?
     

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