Nice Martin Imperial on Ebay+The Committee Member's Names

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by lovevixen555, Nov 30, 2008.

  1. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

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    Reynold Schilike, Vincent Bach,Elden Benge,Forester Reynolds I think I got them in their. Schilke bounced all over the place working for various companies and stores before building his first trumpet in his garage with the help of Elden Benge. See Schilike had no experince useing machine tools like a lathe for instance. So for those that are hung up on names know this Schilike started out in his garage when he decided to build his own trumpets! So again my idea to upgrade a trumpet in my garage to both repair it and change the over all sound is not that far off from what some of the greats did. NYCT their stage one trumpets where prototyped by a guy that does brass instrument repair and modifications a small business man not some huge manufacture. History is a wounderful thing since it can inspire us to do what other have done or it can convince us to not make the same mistakes as our father's. In any case what I proposed in another thread is not only viable but has been done by many of those we admire today!
     
  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Man, you are nuts.

    If you check out Schilkes research, you see he had a lot more going for him than operating a lathe. He was successful because he had a dream and the technical means to realize that dream. He never tried to build the better Bach. He discovered how intonation works in trumpets and his had the most even blow and best intonation. The Schilke horns were always built like swiss watches. That is no coincidence.

    Please do not disgrace this fine trumpet pioneer with your simplistic generalities. He EARNED everything by hard, smart work. His company is still on the map today.

    I would be very happy if I only made the mistakes my father did. Pointing out the mistakes of previous generations shows a disrespect for the situation in which those mistakes were perhaps made. Hindsight is the intelligence of the challenged.

    Good luck in your garage.
     
  3. ChaseFan

    ChaseFan Banned

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    When a moderator makes personal attacks like that,
    who moderates the moderators?

    Dean
     
  4. Bill McCloskey

    Bill McCloskey Piano User

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    Apr 22, 2007
    "In any case what I proposed in another thread is not only viable but has been done by many of those we admire today!"

    Well, I don't think anyone is stopping you. Go for it. Just talking about it won't get you any where.

    Instead of starting another thread, go into your garage, create a masterpiece. Make sure you post some pictures and sound files when you get down. Nothing better than a Told You So thread.
     
  5. westview1900

    westview1900 Piano User

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    Nov 30, 2005
    The O.P. may or may not have the aptitude to eventually build quality trumpets. I just think that the idea should be critically questioned, not the person's sanity. Your posts are almost always very well thought out and constructed. I, like everyone else here, I imagine, appreciate your sharing your knowledge and experience with us.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2008
  6. veery715

    veery715 Utimate User

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    Ithaca NY
    In my book that doesn't qualify as a personal attack. It is a critique of screwy thinking, sloppy generalities, and poor logic.
    No one is (or should be, Dean) offended by what Rowuk wrote. It's like having a conversation and asking, "What, are you crazy?", when someone makes a ridiculous assertion. Mild rhetoric, yes, but not insulting.

    Despite my argument, the moderator is quite capable of writing in his own defense, and I am sure Rowuk will have his own reply to your question.

    And ultimately, we, the forum members, moderate the moderators.
     
  7. ChaseFan

    ChaseFan Banned

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    Mar 25, 2008
    If you don't see the difference between "Your logic is faulty"
    and "You are nuts", then you need to get a new book.

    If you don't think that Rowuk throwing the word "disgrace"
    at the other person is an insult, then you need to get a new book.

    "You are free to disagree with others, but if you stoop to personal abuse or attacks, your post(s) will be removed and there is a chance you might be banned."
    http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb/f184/forum-rules-31366.html

    Moderators have the ability to ban us from this site.
    We do not have the ability to ban Moderators from this site.

    Moderators have the ability to delete our posts.
    We do not have the ability to delete Moderators' posts.

    Rowuk has a long history here of calling people "nuts" and "obnoxious" and any other colorful and insulting adjectives he feels at the moment.
    For a typical example of Rowuk's behavior here, see
    http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb/f131/maynard-ferguson-conquistador-rendition-me-36258.html
    where Mikeman7 had to tell Rowuk to "ease up" on Rowuk's bullying a 15 year old kid.
    I admit that it is a sore point with me, since Rowuk also did it to one of my relatives here last year.

    I don't want to go into a lengthy debate about the matter.
    I don't want to fight about it.
    That's all I have to say about it.

    Dean
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2008
  8. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

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    Nov 5, 2008
    Michigan
    Wow Mr. Adminastrator where to start??? Well first off I never said that Schilike was their to operate the lathe! Re-read what I wrote. Benge was their for his ability as a machinist to operating lathes etc….Schilke was the main brain. My post though was not a dissertation on Schilikes though so simple is fine. The title of my thread was about a nice Martin Empieral on Ebay and who made up the Martin committee or did that fact escape you. Now had the title of my thread been something like “Schilike the man and his trumpets” I could see you busting my chop’s about over simplifying things. If you read the title of my thread and then what I posted you see the two are in order.

    Now my point about bringing up Schilikes and Benge was to point out that a great company still in business that is well known for turning out great trumpet’s started out in Schilikes garage not some huge assembly plant glistening with modern machinery and skilled trade’s man as far as the eye could see.

    So please feel free to apologies at you’re convince for being rude and taking everything I said out of contest…. I will accept your apology. Now was their anything wrong with my information about their being a Martin Imperial on Ebay or my fact’s about who made up the committee? Was I wrong on the fact that Schilikes and Benge teamed u p in Schilikes garage to design and build their first trumpet together? If so then fine correct me but if not get off my back! In fact as an Administrator I would expect you to behave better then common garden variety riffraff and lead by example but I guess a title does not make the man in this case!
     
  9. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

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    Mar 21, 2006
    Toronto
    Rowuk is one of the most well spoken and informative posters on this site.
    His remark was hardly insulting. I would have used stronger words than that for some of your posts quite honestly.
     
  10. veery715

    veery715 Utimate User

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    Ithaca NY
    There is nothing wrong with my book. It reflects lessons and understanding accrued over a long period. A remark which may have once drawn a strong reaction from me is now taken within the context of its delivery and the intent of the writer, and my sense of what is and what isn't appropriate has mellowed with time. It is not that I am jaded. I still get my knickers in a twist over nasty, mean, inconsiderate, and unkind treatment of another. But I take time to process what has ensued and do not merely react. Wars are fought by testosterone-driven young men because that is what young men do best. Older men, grown-up men, prefer to talk.

    Describing someone's content as disgracing an historic figure is not the same as calling the originator a disgrace. Telling someone their logic is faulty is OK. But it doesn't carry the same weight as "Man, you are nuts." I would be put off by either of those, but then my logic is superb, and I am somewhat nuts. One remark is off-putting because it is wrong, and the other, because it is correct. I wouldn't let either one provoke me though, nor would I think ill of the originator.

    When I said we are ultimately the moderator's moderators, I wasn't talking about the web-forum mechanics and the management rights of those moderating or otherwise in charge. I meant that if a true wrong or misbehavior was perpetrated on those of us who frequent this "place", we would be able, by generating sufficient hue-and-cry over it, to disconnect the offender from his position. There are still underpinnings of democracy at work here at TM.

    As Brekelefuw noted, Rowuk is both well-spoken and informative. He goes the extra mile to provide in-depth information to us - really high quality stuff, IMO, and he makes an effort to stay above the fray and avoid flame wars. If he ridicules a poster on occasion, he does it while standing on firm ground.

    As TM members, as trumpet players, as performers, we put ourselves in the spotlight. To succeed we need a thick skin.
     

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