Note Names - Doubles and Triples

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Rich Wetzel, Aug 17, 2009.

  1. Rich Wetzel

    Rich Wetzel Pianissimo User

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    Rowuk, I love your points in your locked post and yes many times people have referred to notes like this but many times and most of my life trumpet players have refered to it not necessarily from a C centric point of view, but rather you had middle g, what some call 2nd line g, then g above the staff was high g, then the g above was double g. and the one above double high c was triple g. A g below the staff was low g, and then you got down to pedal g, then double pedal g.

    When people would say a low A, everyone knew they meant the A below the staff. When they said a middle A, they knew they meant the A in the staff. When people said a high A, they knew they meant the A above the staff and when people said a double A they knew they meant the A above high C.

    I agree sometimes people do refer to these notes differently, no doubt about it.

    Intellectually I can understand your points.

    I am just telling you I have heard it more commonly refered to in this manner for a lot of years. Usually f or g above high c is where I would hear the double expressions begin, then triples at the f or g above double high c.
     
  2. Solar Bell

    Solar Bell Moderator Staff Member

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    I'll add my two cents.

    In the Detroit music scene, the PROFESSIONAL players start the doubles at double C, so anything above double C, like a G above double C, is a double G.

    I asked Mike Williams, the long time lead player and screamer for the Count Basie Orchestra the question and he agrees with that, the "Doubles" start at Double C.

    By the way Rich, The Mayn Thing CD isa killer CD!!!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2009
  3. Rich Wetzel

    Rich Wetzel Pianissimo User

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    Thanks Chuck and yes, a lot of top players refer to it exactly as you mention as well.

    My only point was to say that a lot of people have done it this way too for a lot of years.

    I think sometimes because both ways have been done so much we end up we end up with some extra conversation when talking about these notes, lol... Fun stuff and thanks for the nice compliment, hope everyone has a great day.
     
  4. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

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    Thanks Rich,here in the New York area we have always used the way of naming notes you mentioned, I didn't say any thing earlier because everyone was so adamant about it , it wasn't worth arguing , but now that you brought it up thanks, when I played lead for Melba Liston's big band and she wanted a double A at the end of a chart, she meant the one above high C not double high C , like you said my trumpet's range starts on a low F# not a low C,.
     
  5. Rich Wetzel

    Rich Wetzel Pianissimo User

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    Thanks Al, I know what you mean.

    There seems to be some people genuinely using something else or wanting to change the nomenclature because the insist they are right, I am just saying my experience has been as I described in my first post in this topic.

    In my experience most top pros, virtually all, use this terminology and have done so pervasively for decades.

    In the context of trumpet playing:

    Pedals = F below low C on down into double pedals starting at F below pedal C

    Low= Notes bottom line and below the staff, down to Low F#

    Middle = Notes in the staff F to top space E ( hence in the middle )

    High = Notes top of staff and above to high E

    Doubles = though some people do occassionally say a high F or high G, still lots of history and systematic application by tons of top pros of double for the F and for the G in particular above high C, then the A above high C pretty universally refered to ias double A, then double B, then double C. This generally is accepted for D and E too.

    Triples = Notes starting at F above double C is the common description by most top pro players in my experience.

    The vast majority of the top pro players use this terminology in my experience.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2009
  6. Bear

    Bear Forte User

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    An observation that comes as a question.... Many times pro-charts only call for the high (double) g with an occasional DHC here or there unless it's some trumpet specific gig like a CHASE tribute or something. Anyways, why does the nomecleature between older and younger players differ so much? Anyone have a theory on that? I've never had a problem understanding that a double g was commonly referred to the 2nd line g just 16va. But when young kids play a high C (2 edger lines above staff) they are commonly calling is a DHC! Lastly, in the proworld, unless you are a dedicated lead or leadtype soloist, how often does the registers above the true DHC become used? I personally have never seen anything above a Double D written... granted, I'm usually out in the boonies, but I play a lot of charts.

    Sorry for semihijacking the thread, just questions that always poop into my head.

    Tim
     
  7. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    There are many myths that follow us throughout our lives. The selfless, innate goodness of our elected officials, the doctors oath to help people, the safety of our banking systems, the superiority of French cooking......................

    We are never too old to learn. Nothing except perhaps mathematics is absolute. I learned in high school that protons, neutrons and electrons were the smallest particles and it was generally accepted that smoking (whatever) was not bad for you.

    Since the beginning of common notation, octaves have started with C. That does not make someone that has heard differently an idiot. It is an opportunity to learn or relearn something however.

    The terminology DOUBLE G is used in context here for "bragging" rights. The pros that have and use the G above high C do not need to talk about it. It is simply a tool for them and as any serious lead player has this note, it is not worth talking about. In the bands that I have played with, no one has ever talked about double anything. They simply ask that something get taken up an octave (or not!). The rest is up to us.....
     
  8. Rich Wetzel

    Rich Wetzel Pianissimo User

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    I understand your point Rowuk and have heard these notes refered to both ways by top pros who absolutely own those notes, so I don't think it has to do with bragging rights at all, it is simply a matter of terminology or common practice in that area and for those people.

    I am not saying it is an absolute all over the world but in my experience, LA, Seattle, guys I know in Vegas, NY, and guys I work with, have played with, some top pro players, almost all of them pretty universally describe it as I described above.

    I don't need it and I am sure these top call guys don't need it to make themselves feel better with the name of a note. We could call it "sweetheart" for all I care.

    Simply this is the terminology that is most prevalent by far out here among top professional players, and has been for decades.

    It's clean, it's simple, it makse sense and frankly most of the top pro players I know use this prevalently.

    It's not about making anybody feel better, it's a communication tool.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2009
  9. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

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    Thanks again Rich, it's not bragging rights wanting to know in which octave a note should be played, it's the same as naming any other note ,it's not bragging calling a F# below the staff a low F# because you know the fingering for it. There may be different parts of the world calling it different things, but to say there is only one way is being narrow minded.
     
  10. Rich Wetzel

    Rich Wetzel Pianissimo User

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    Great points Tim. I agree, a lot of pop and big band literature has the lead trumpet written up to G above high C with some frequency. Over the last few years I have seen a few more A's, and sometimes you can see a double D written or indicated with an 8va marking.

    Usually the few guys going higher than that, and it's not a lot, are doing so on a solo or special feature so yes, not a note you would typically see written out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2009

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