One shortcoming of Musical Notation

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by trumpetsplus, Jan 10, 2015.

  1. therealnod

    therealnod Pianissimo User

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    The problem there is that other people have to synchronize the parts. It's all very nice that you can ignore it on your own, but think about the entire score...there are alot of moving parts that have to work together. For a solo piece you can be allowed almost unlimited freedom, but ensemble work demands that we all follow a script, however we wish to color it.
     
  2. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    Nobody is suggesting that the parts be ignored or that note values be changed. My original point is that the visual appearance of the music does not make the same kind of sense as the audio does. I certainly am not advocating a new form of notation, just trying to help people through some of the idiosyncrasies of our present one, like, as Reedman noted, the tyranny of the bar line.
     
  3. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    I guess that depends on the ensemble.

    First, we have to know the style of the pieces we're playing. For instances, take someone who has only ever played or heard classical music, and sit them in with a swing big band. How do you suppose they are going to play those figures? Certainly not like they are supposed to be played, because they don't know the style.

    However, take a group of players who do know the style and put them in a section together, particularly in a big band. How are they going to stay together and play the figures like a real section should, particularly since most big bands don't actually use a conductor except to kick off tunes, or to end tunes, and sometimes to navigate through a transition? They LISTEN. No one conducted the brass quintet I was in, yet we all managed to play together. Why was that? Because we listened to each other, and we rehearsed together enough to get a sense for how we were going to play.

    Conductors aren't always necessary. Clear back in my early days as an Army bandsman, the band I was a part of used to do a joint concert with the US Army Field Band, and in a conversation with one of the field band trumpet players, I commented, "you guys don't always seem to be following the conductor," to which he responded, "nope, and we play pretty good in spite of him." :D

    In any case, going back to the idea of knowing musical styles for how certain things should be played or phrased, I used to work with a HS band, and I would implore the kids in the jazz band to listen to some jazz, because otherwise, how else were they going to get a feel for how the songs should be played?
     
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  4. Reedman1

    Reedman1 Piano User

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    Lost our thread... It's about the graphical representation. Imagine an "exit here" sign that was painted to look like "ex ithe re". You might have a little trouble parsing it correctly. The content's all there, and in logical order, but the way it's presented is misleading. That, "inan uts hell" is what we're talking about.
     
  5. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    Stravinsky's frequent use of odd meters broke the "tyrany" of the bar line. Still need to subdivide while playing his works (and everyone else's), and by subdividing, "ex ithe re" becomes "ex-it-here." Not a problem for a player experienced in recognizing rhythmic patterns and executing them.
     
  6. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    Agree - I'd commented earlier that grouping the 16th with the following note my be correct from a phrasing perspective due to the fact that the 16th "belonged" to the following note, but that it would make it a pain to read. Your analogy with the exit sign explains perfectly why poor grouping of the notes would make things much more difficult to read.
     
  7. Reedman1

    Reedman1 Piano User

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    Step outside music for a moment. Does the way something looks affect how you interpret it? At least sometimes? Just think about it a little bit.
     
  8. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    Is this directed to me, or is it rhetorical?
     
  9. Reedman1

    Reedman1 Piano User

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    Rhetorical, absolutely.
     
  10. J. Jericho

    J. Jericho Fortissimo User

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    Bravo!
     

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