Orchestral Mouthopiece

Discussion in 'Mouthpieces / Mutes / Other' started by Ralph, Jul 27, 2005.

  1. Ralph

    Ralph Pianissimo User

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    Jan 27, 2005
    The answer to my question is relative, but it keeps plaguing me. Where, in terms of size, is the cut off for when a mouthpiece is too small to be considered an orchestral mouthpiece? What is the importance of this question you may ask. It's purely for my own ego. I just can't bear the thought that I'm not a strong enough player to play an orchestral piece. :cry:
     
  2. BigBadWolf

    BigBadWolf Piano User

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    Nov 30, 2004
    Los Angeles, CA
    Nothing is too small. However, I have found that the vast majority of players use something in the 1C range (1.5, 1.25 inclusive).
     
  3. Rgale

    Rgale Mezzo Forte User

    844
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    Jun 16, 2005
    BBW is right. The vast majority of players use something in the Bach 1 to 1.5c range, though there are exceptions.
    Roger Voisin played a smaller piece but was of a very different school than most players today. On the other hand , I have read that Herseth won his job playing a Bach 7, and only went to his larger piece after his car accident. If that is wrong, I am sure someone will correct my error.
     
  4. loweredsixth

    loweredsixth Pianissimo User

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    Mar 11, 2005
    Fresno, California, USA
    I have even heard huge, broad sounds from players using a 10 1/2C, but I would assume that this is pretty much the cutt-off point.
     
  5. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

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    Sep 29, 2004
    USA
    I have to disagree with the Herseth assumption. Sure, he won the job and played for a while with the 7c but I think the demands would have had him grow into something substantially bigger eventually. That's what happened with me. I got the Seattle job with a 1 1/2 C and left after four years with a 1B. Later I played a 1A for a while and settled on a 1X.

    I defy you to find any major market orchestral player with AVERAGE lips playing a 7C equivalent. The smallest mouthpiece on a major market player I knew of was Gerry Schwarz with a 5C. Voisin's 6B was actually a fairly deep mouthpiece but the rim was tighter. If one has very thin lips, then the 7C is plausible.

    ML
     
  6. Ralph

    Ralph Pianissimo User

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    Jan 27, 2005
    My best results are with a Stork 4C. My sound is bigger on a bigger mouthpiece, but my playing is better overall on the 4C. I give up too much endurance and control on the bigger piece. The 4C is the smallest mouthpiece that still gives me good results. I used to approach things in the opposite direction; meaning, I'd play on the biggest mouthpiece I could handle. Now I play on the smallest mouthpiece that still gives me good results.

    I also tend to favor a V-shaped cups over a true C (or U-shaped) cup. The sound darkens just enough, but still bright which I like, and they just feel easier to blow.
     
  7. Ralph

    Ralph Pianissimo User

    50
    1
    Jan 27, 2005
    I certainly haven't heard of any. That's why I'm starting to get a complex with my Stork 4C (16.25mm diameter). The cup is fairly deep, but it is on the small side in terms of diameter. I have a GR 3HC* which really carries well, but the rim is so darn wide. It's distracting. Slurs are very hard for me with anything bigger than 16.5mm (.65 in).
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Forte User

    1,099
    4
    Oct 21, 2003
    I think John Hagstrom's Parke mouthpiece is around a 620-290 which is around a 7B I think. My teacher who plays in the BSO plays a 5B.
     
  9. FlugelFlyer

    FlugelFlyer Piano User

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    Dec 15, 2003
    Palos Park, IL
    I believe Tim Morrision still uses a Warburton 2M/10 with his C trumpet and 2M/6 on his Bb horn, and I believe he used that mouthpiece setup during his BSO days. The 2M top compares approximately to a Bach 1-1/4D I believe, which is definately on the small side of the spectrum volume-wise. Beyond that, I'm a believer that the smart one will slowly and naturally gravitate to larger mouthpieces as the time comes. Thankfully, I can get away on gigs right now with a weird mouthpiece that looks and plays like the [email protected]@rd stepchild of a 1-1/2C rim and a 3C cup, but I definately am not getting rid of my large mouthpiece collection anytime soon.
     
  10. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

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    Sep 29, 2004
    USA
    I understand but the B cup is still a deep mouthpiece. Again, maybe the focus of the contentions should be about the cup depth and not the rim. The rim is something that is decided by lip thickness, I think. Our former 4th and utility player, Mike Hipps had very thin lips and played on a rim that was smaller but the cup depth was normal, by symphonic standards.

    The first time I played on a Monette 1-1 mouthpiece was because I had a bad lip abrasion that made me lip swell. I tried one of Bob Dorer's mouthpiece's and i could play it! I could hardly believe it as I swore there was no way I could play that rim. When the swelling went down, bingo! I was back on my old 1-2 set up.

    These days I'm being a guinea pig for Dave with the new C1-4. That rim and cup are different than what the 1-5M I've been playing recently. Don't ask me what the differences are, please... I just know it's a little different. They all feel and sound good to me. Its just a question of color here, better range there... lots of variables. I play the largest mouthpiece where I can still play up to about a high F or G on either horn. The low register has to be clean. So, there are my criteria from a range perspective. The sound has to be rich above everything else.

    ML
     

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