Pedal C

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by hhsTrumpet, Sep 16, 2012.

  1. ultratrumpet

    ultratrumpet Piano User

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    The correct way is the Herbert L. Clarke, Claude Gordon, and William Knevitt way. Everything written in my posts is consistent with their teachings.
     
  2. Local 357

    Local 357 Banned

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    "It is written therefore it is so". "Came from the prophet so it must be true".


    Much false physics obscures the view the trumpet player gets shown what to do. I'm trying to get others to examine their thoughts. To question and not merely accept things based upon what so and so said it.

    We are not immune to the laws of physics just because we pick up a trumpet and/or take a lesson from a person with a dominant personality such as Claude was.

    Claude Gordon's method being one of the worst offenders of flawed physics in the trumpet world (hint: most are pretty bad). I will tell any practitioner or promoter of his very flawed system these words. Directly to their faces. Heck maybe I just did...


    Most high note and physical methods will only help those trumpet players who are naturally well inclined to play the method shown. If they help them at all that is. Since none are established in science the results will likely be unsatisfactory for the masses. Thus Arturo does well with a Gordon technique and Brisbois did well with the Stevens System. Each is radically different from the others. To say one is correct over the other?

    This is negligent. Gordon was that negligent. For that matter so was Stevens.
     
  3. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    Thank God I did not study law... In this way, I am ignorant to the laws of physics, and I just play the damned note.
     
  4. Local 357

    Local 357 Banned

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    That's OK because you admit it (and I kno ur pulling my laig...) However Gordon and the others did not admit that their systems weren't based in physics and yet promoted them as if they were.

    Even with Reinhardt we see him specifically use the word "scientific" to endorse his teachings. However he put the the tongue arch syllables right on the cover of one of his books. So much for physical science...:dontknow: ...

    Even Roy Steven's brilliant work fell far short. I spent a good money back in 1975 when I bought his book "Embouchure Self Analysis and Triple C Embouchure Technique" only to discover for myself thirty years later Stevens was at least half full of bunk.

    We had graffiti up in the practice rooms across from Old Chapel saying


    "All Roy Stevens has is a lot of trumpet player's money"...


    And there is some truth to the statement. Yet his book is a good read. Here: http://www.amazon.com/Embouchure-analysis-Stevens-Costello-embouchure-technique/dp/B00071YN00
     
  5. richtom

    richtom Forte User

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    Doing pedals incorrectly is one of the best ways to screw up your chops. Some Bb trumpets do not slot pedal C well and folks end up over manipulating their embouchure to get a note that they will never use. That is a prescription for trouble - especially when done by the uneducated.
    I find careful use of pedal exercises beneficial to air flow and sound in the register where most trumpet music is written but I darn well better use my real embouchure set or I will have to take a few minutes time to get it back. What does THAT accomplish? Absolutely nothing. I remember Mike Vax's advice given during a clinic he gave a dozen or so years ago. He said if you can't get a clean pedal C, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT (He did have a pedal C, by the way) and DON'T over-adjust your embouchure to play pedals.
    Rich T.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  6. Local 357

    Local 357 Banned

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    A good post Rich. Like I said Brisbois claimed "pedals almost screwed me up". Vax was good friends w/Brisbois too I might add.
     
  7. Jfrancis

    Jfrancis Pianissimo User

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    Has a lot to do with the horn's build. I have done pedal tones for over 30 years. Never could do it on my Bb. You could either go either all 3 valves down and lip it, or open the spit valve with all open, and you could probably play it. Not the handiest, but it'll work.
     
  8. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    ;-)
     
  9. ultratrumpet

    ultratrumpet Piano User

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    Claude Gordon wrote:
    Today we have a dangerous situation for the aspiring player: TOO MUCH THEORY. Theory does not prove anything: it is just someone's idea. Furthermore, one does not play by theory, but by feel.

    Today we have stacks of books on theory. We have it expounded at schools, argued by teachers and in brass guilds and institutions where each one gets up and talks about all of his theories.
     
  10. ultratrumpet

    ultratrumpet Piano User

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    If a player plays pedal tones wrong, he had better not play them at all.
     

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