placement of the mouthpiece in the leadpipe

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by chenzo, Feb 18, 2013.

  1. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

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    I guess if you could ensure that the leadpipe was perfectly concentric with the mouthpiece rim, and the mouthpiece rim was perfectly concentric with the throat, and the backbore aligned perfectly with mouthpiece receiver - and all the combinations lined up perfectly everytime - and tolerance stack-up didn't exist - or the combinations of such stack-up were always perfect, then 'clocking' would be a nonsense. If ALL the parts of the leadpipe and mouthpiece could be machined and assembled all mounted on the same centre, and nothing ever got bent - then maybe the concept of 'clocking' might be a nonsense.

    I'm not so sure - I'm an engineer, my mind is not open to guesswork and emotion so much - I know all the concentricities are virtually impossible even in modern production techniques because parts of the assembly processes are manual. But I suppose you could be right.
     
  2. stumac

    stumac Fortissimo User

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    Ted, I have looked at several of my horns and the only one that has a noticeable offcenter at the receiver leadpipe junction is an Olds Mendez, also my mouthpieces, a Bach 5B is the worst at the end of the shank. Tomorrow I will see if I can detect a difference in various positions of the mouthpiece.

    I have a what was a Getzen Super Delux that I have rebuilt that had a pronounced misalignment at the junction, I made an extended No1 morse reamer and blended the receiver taper into the leadpipe in the style of the old Benges and Bueschers.

    Regards, Stuart.
     
  3. cantplaytrumpet

    cantplaytrumpet Pianissimo User

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    Hehe, that article did make me chuckle.

    What I think is going on is that he positioned the mouthpiece on his lips differently, unintentionally of course. And it was that that changed the sound. :D
    Well to me it seems like a more logical explanation.
     
  4. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

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    Sounds like good research Stuart, and likely to give a learned result.

    If the tubings was all a perfect fit - and concentric, trumpet assembly would probably be almost an interference fit, but the spare brass tubing I have access to is all a bit 'distorted'.

    These posts play to the same idea as the thread on "Wow! You Don't have to Buzz" - that's all about alignment too.

    Having said I have a closed mind - I am open to argument, but make it logical, I'm a sucker for logic.
     
  5. Conntribution

    Conntribution Fortissimo User

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    Just for sh*ts and giggles I tried it with all 3 horns. Not only rotating them, but swapping them out with others and spinning them round. Can't say I noticed anything....well, possibly with the notable exception of fluffing some high notes....but Jack Daniels is more to blame for that.......
     
  6. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    The thought of clocking has never crossed my mind. When someone says I sounded good, I've never thought, I'm glad the Giardinelli stamp was at 127 degrees! That could have been disastrous!!! Phew! Sooooooo many other relevant things to work on that matter. Unless there is obvious damage to the equipment , which should be fixed, only an accousticrat can "tell" the difference. :roll:
     
  7. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    The more you drink, the better you sound and the prettier she gets!! [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  8. JNINWI

    JNINWI Piano User

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    This same thought has been out in the trumpet world for a LONG time. Some people poo poo it, and some sware by it. I believe Allen V, who I think is incredible, does not believe this while other pros live by it. My brother and I, surprisingly both play the same mouthpieces, (by shear coincidence). He lives in Boston, I live in the Mid-west. We have experimented with this thought. He would send me a mouthpiece that he found the “sweet spot” rotationally and would observe where the stenciling on the piece was on top, he would note that and send it to me, not telling me where it is. I would test the piece, and find where I felt the performance was the best and tell him, by the stenciling and where it sat in the horn. 90% of the time we would both end up in the same placement. I’ve done this with him with the same results. Being doubters also, we now believe there is an effect from this. My thoughts are, any thing to give you a few more Horsepower and make it more efficient is worth it, so my mouthpiece is marked and goes in the same way each time. Also we have found that multiple mouthpieces made the exact same way, same brand and model will each play a little different. I’ve done some testing with mouthpieces using high power digital microscopes and found that the pieces that do not perform have differences in the venturi and throat that are not found in the pieces that do perform. Yes ladies and Gentlemen, mouthpiece manufactures are good but they are not perfect… I also attribute these mechanical characteristics as to why you can clock a mouthpiece, (there HAS to be a quantitative reason RIGHT !! it’s not hocus pocus here !) Not exact, but kind of what you were looking for Gmonady……. Once again….It’s ALL about air flow…… : ) just my 2 cents....
     
  9. barliman2001

    barliman2001 Fortissimo User

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    When I started, I had massive problems with changing intonation. My then teacher, Leo Kappelmeier, advised me how to find the proper mouthpiece position and mark that. Now every one of my mouthpieces has its own mark which is to be lined up with a mark on the receiver. I don't know why - but it works!
    Possibly no mouthpiece is really symmetrical...
     
  10. Conntribution

    Conntribution Fortissimo User

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    I'll try it again when I'm less hungover.....I'm flexible.
     

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