Play a long cd (reccomended) and question(s) about Eb vs Bb trumpet tone

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by coolerdave, Mar 14, 2012.

  1. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    5,242
    1,791
    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
    okay first... picked this up on Saturday ... very well done and Mark Niehaus playing is outstanding
    The Trumpet Collection sheet music by Mark Niehaus and Jeannie Yu | Sheet Music Plus
    so I recommend that if you are looking for a Classical Trumpet Concerto play-along-cd, you check this out.
    I was listening to Mr Niehaus on a few pieces. He is playing on an Eb trumpet for some of them.
    I mentioned to my wife how nice that Eb trumpet sounded ... I got a stare and then she glanced over at the 5 other trumpet I had out ... so I guess it would be wise to hold on off on that purchase :)
    So my questions
    The playing sounds rather soft ... since I haven't heard these performed live. Isn't the performance on the Neruda, Haydn, and Hummel usually a little louder than what you hear on a cd in a studio.
    Is it reasonable to expect a Bb to be able to play these pieces at a soft dynamic level or do you just have to accept it's going to have a little more zing.
    Now the dreaded question .... is using a mouthpiece with different bore or ? something that is done on these pieces?

    I tried playing the Neruda on some different horns, my Bach is getting ultrasonically cleaned so
    Conn 38b .. sounded kind of cool but I didn't think the overtones were bright enough
    Holton 47 .... played great but the reverse leadpipe seem to sizzle ..close but no cigar
    Conn Concert Grande ... sounded great but a little hard to control in the upper register (my chops not the horn)
     
  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,613
    7,957
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    The original instruments were closer to the Bb in sound than modern Eb trumpets.

    The studio volume is synthetic and only represents what the engineer thought was OK. Live, the trumpet is seldom too soft. No need to be. Volume is relative. The second movement of the Neruda can be played softly on a Bb. The same with the Haydn and Hummel. The first and last movements can be zingier - we are playing trumpets after all!
     
  3. Local 357

    Local 357 Banned

    633
    240
    Jul 1, 2011
    The answer will be personal to you but is still a good question. Oddly my mouthpiece choice for the E Flat trumpet is usually something a little deeper and more open than for most my B Flat work. But then again I'm usually playing big band lead on the B Flat which would explain the shallower cup and tighter back bore.

    Even more amusing or paradoxical is that i will often go comparatively deep and open on most piccolo work. Unless it goes above the High E and yet even then I'd still prefer to not use my most very shallowest of equipment. The reason is that accuracy on softer attacks is a paramount concern for baroque and upper register "legit" music. I also want to reduce the tendency to get that small mouthpiece edginess.

    The E Flat and higher pitched horns can sound very nice on open mouthpieces. Sometimes just the mildest of back bore adjustments can turn a decent mouthpiece into a GREAT piece.

    I've never screwed around with mouthpiece gap adjustments. Or tone rings/long heavy outer cup metal Doesn't mean that this couldn't help tone but just never tried the idea. Maybe I never will lol.
     
  4. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    5,242
    1,791
    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
    Thanks Local .... the GR catalog states that my particular mp was well suited for C trumpet... it has a pretty deep cup on it... pretty much what you said... thx for the post
     
  5. mtbevins

    mtbevins Pianissimo User

    104
    11
    Jan 18, 2011
    Phoenix, Arizona
    The issue I have with the Bb on some of these pieces is the fingerings in relation to the figure. Some are simpler to play in Eb than in Bb. I am looking for an Eb again, as I sold the cheap Chinese one (could not make it work for me). So it is back the playing these on the Bach Bb for now until I get it. (I got the same response coolerdave from my wife). :p
     
  6. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    5,242
    1,791
    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
    I am trying to convince myself that it shouldn't be a playability issue .... we are trumpet players right?
    "We don't need no stinkin' Eb trumpet" ....grunt
     
  7. mtbevins

    mtbevins Pianissimo User

    104
    11
    Jan 18, 2011
    Phoenix, Arizona
    I think you are right. And if I was a better trumpet player it would not matter. One thing that is true, the sound / intonation is different between and Eb and a Bb. I have to say I hear more of a difference when I hear one of the concertos played on a horn with rotary valves vs piston. The runs are notably smoother and faster on the rotary valve horn (IMO).
     
  8. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    5,242
    1,791
    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
    You are making it real difficult for me to able to delude myself ...
     
  9. mtbevins

    mtbevins Pianissimo User

    104
    11
    Jan 18, 2011
    Phoenix, Arizona
    LOL! I feel your pain. I bought a Chinese Eb and could never make it do what I wanted and sold it off. I have been looking for a good Eb that would play and sound good and not cost me $1200+. I did play an Eastman that was good, but the store wants $1200 for it which seems high considering it is Chinese. I tend to look at things in the light of " Can I sell it for what I am paying for it". and if the answer is "No" than I keep looking. Did you see the Wedgewood in the classifieds here on Trumpetmaster? That looks like a good horn. I was looking at a horn on HornTrader.com recently. It is actually a Cornet in Eb. I am thinking I want a Trumpet not a Cornet though. I have seen a few Getzens on Ebay of recent but once again I think a bit high for what they are $500 or so. I will keep looking.
     
    coolerdave likes this.
  10. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

    8,040
    2,035
    Aug 16, 2009
    Jackson NC
    I first heard it played solo on an alto sax (Eb) in high school, and then when in college solo on an Eb rotary trumpet. Finally, I messed around changing concert keys on a Bb trumpet and finally got a rendition I liked of Harlem Nocturne.
    Still, you can't push it.
     

Share This Page