Playing in an orchestral style

Discussion in 'Orchestra / Solo / Chamber Music' started by Ryan, Jun 13, 2005.

  1. Ryan

    Ryan New Friend

    Jun 13, 2005
    Hey guys, I'm 16 and I love playing orchestral music and solos when I have the chance. Granted our school has a band, not an orchestra, I still do honor orchestras and such if I can make it. I have a problem however. I play too stacato, even on parts that are supposed to be short. Does anyone have any tips on how to get that full, flowing, long orchestral sound compared to what my trumpet teacher calls a polka band sound? thanks!
  2. Musician4077

    Musician4077 New Friend

    May 23, 2005
    Essexville, MI
    Hey Ryan, I hear ya on the "school only has band, no orchestra" situation. I've only played with an orchestra for one summer at Blue Lake Fine Arts Camp, but it was the greatest experience, and I'm always looking for other orchestras.

    As for playing in the style, I always think of a marking I first encountered in my 7th grade solo. This was dolce legato, or "sweetly smooth". Also, I think of a quote I heard once of the "majestic trumpet, soaring over the orchestra". Maybe that'll help you too, I don't know. Just try for a full and dark sound and go for the phrasing.

    Hope that helps a little bit at least,

  3. MahlerBrass

    MahlerBrass Piano User

    Oct 1, 2004
    Houston, TX
    If you find yourself playing everything short, stop, and play the same passage completely slurred. Once you're able to play it slurred with a continous flow of air (remember: the air doesn't stop, it's like a water faucet when turned on), then it's just a matter of remembering that the tongue just bounces off of the air to produce an articulation. A good anology would be to picture a water faucet going and passing a butter knife through the running water, does the water ever stop? So must your air be continous at all time and that'll hopefully help you achieve that sound you're looking for, hope that helps!
  4. tpter1

    tpter1 Forte User

    Jan 12, 2005
    Northern New York
    Ryan- I am going to give you a tip taken directly from our wonderful neighbor a few "floors" up...Mr. Laureano.

    Let me preface that by saying that good articulation is sort of like a string of pearls...each note is a pearl, and the air is the string. Keep the air moving through the notes, be they molto legato or marcato or staccato.

    Sounds like you are saying "tut" on your staccatos. Manny suggests (and I have been using with great success) a "tooh" syllable.

    (I am going off on my own here, but if I get off track, just revert me back, ok?)

    Try this OFF THE HORN: pretend you are blowing out a birthday candle by going "toooh!" Try that several times until you get the feel of "following through" with the air. Then try several 2nd line g's the same way. Relaxed, comfortable volume. No blasting! Then try this: play a G (2nd line) dotted half, but play it as if there is a quarter note immediately following it with a broad accent over it. Don't actually play the quarter...imagine it. The half should go right into the rest.

    Listen to some great players, such as Mr. Laureano (Minnesota Symphony Orchestra), Phil Smith (New York Phil, no pun intended), Maurice Andre, Ed Carroll, Empire Brass (Rolf Smedvig) for starters. Try identifying key elements of their methods of articulation, then try to incorporate those into your own playing.
  5. dizforprez

    dizforprez Forte User

    Nov 2, 2003
    I believe that the band style of articulation leads to many problems in developing brass players. Striving to please the conductor by producing tat, tut or any variation of that articulation leads to problems regarding tension among other things.

    I would second all that Glenn said and add that practicing Getchell book one is a good book to start with when first learning this concept.
  6. slybootz

    slybootz Pianissimo User

    May 20, 2006
    thats right, keep your air flowing. continuity!
  7. Pedal C

    Pedal C Mezzo Forte User

    Jan 24, 2005
    I'd suggest to do a lot of listening to the style you'd like to learn. That's the best way to get the result you want firmly implanted in your brain. Keeping the air flowing and such is all great advice, but you first must really hear it in your own mind. Arnold Jacobs said that he played two horns: the one in his hands and the one in his head. Once you start playing the horn in your head like you want to, the one in your hands will follow along. Good recordings can include, but are certainly not limited to...

    Chicago Symphony, Bud Herseth or (recently) Chris Martin.
    New York Phil, Phil Smith
    Minnesota Orch, Manny Laureano
    Boston Symphony, Charlie Schlueter.

    The list goes on and on...

  8. Jimnopidy

    Jimnopidy New Friend

    Sep 27, 2007
    Kendal UK
    It's all down to tone production and projection. think of the notes as 'brick' shape and not 'sausage' shape i.e , each note should have a definate beginning and an end. (Draw a brick alongside a sausage and you will see what I mean). read 'The Inner Game of Music'
  9. cornetguy

    cornetguy Mezzo Forte User

    Sep 12, 2005
    Saint Paul, MN
    I found band to be counterproductive to creating that sound in a different way. I was playing ppp the part is marked f or ff and the (insert your own adjective here) director would be yelling at me you're too loud. I found myself having to suck on the horn and having tone production problems that way as a result of playing in bands (the director misread the Macbeth book) to the point that I don't play in bands or wind ensembles anymore.
  10. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    This thread is 3 years old but the topic is eternal!
    I disagree with the premise of bricks instead of sausage and that orchestral trumpeting means long and flowing. Many things have been legatoed to death in american orchestral playing and there is a definite trend (in Europe anyway) towards differentiation depending on the music. This "new" (old) articulation is actually sneaking its way into accepted practice through historic instrument performances. If you listen to a Beethoven symphony played by the Academy of Ancient Music for instance, you will hear what I am talking about. Why someone wants to make a cloud out of a note marked staccato with a sffz underneath is a mystery to me - unless piston trumpets sound ugly when playing what the COMPOSER specified...............
    There is plenty of opportunity in the orchestral literature for a tut, but also plenty for a tooh. If we are serious about the trumpet, we need it all. We can learn from the greats like Bud Herseth and Phil Smith, but should pay attention to Michael Laird, Crispian Steele-Perkins, Mathias Höfs and Niklas Eklund too. There are significant differences!

    A real treat for articulation freaks are the Sergei Nakariakov recordings. That guy has his tuts and toohs in context!

    Nope, for me orchestral style is flowing water to machine gun and honey to flame thrower. I NEED IT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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