Pro horn vs student for learning

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by YTR-2335, Apr 2, 2006.

  1. tpter1

    tpter1 Forte User

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    I remember having a bunch of kids having problems with that same horn. Same ones, in fact (valves). I began recommending the King 601. Nice because it had a 3rd slide that moves, a 1st valve saddle (and the slide moves there, too) and it is a nice sounding horn for the price. Lacquer and silver finish available. Durability: you could probably throw it against a wall and it'll still play. (Well, a bit of exaggeration there, but you get the point).

    Pro horns are built to play; student horns are built to handle being dropped. (Fact of life. Every 5 seconds, a trumpet goes crash on the floor. Even though their band director has told them over and over again "in your hands or in the case!")
     
  2. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

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    Yee HAW!
    What surprises me is that nobody has complained about Yamaha's old, red-rot problems. Some of their earlier horns were notorious for being "rotters". And it was not confined to trumpets nor to student models. One of my kids has a Yamaha YTS 61 (pro model tenor sax) that has red rot 'spots' on the valves. Since the pads seal off the ports OK it isn't likely to be as much of a problem as a trumpet but still, it's there.

    Again, they tried some metallurgy that just "didn't cut the mustard".
     
  3. mtm-austin

    mtm-austin New Friend

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    I bought a new YTR-2335 last July. Once I was certain I'd stick with the trumpet, I succumbed to the desire for more and bought a new YTR-8345GS large-bore Xeno. Given the state of my embouchure development at that time and my needs, I could have easily stayed with the 2335 for quite some time. It is a well-built horn. My valves were fast (using BlueJuice). I had absolutely no problems of any kind with this horn. The fit and finish were great. The gold lacquer made it an attractive looking horn. Given that you can get a new one for less than $500, it is a great value.

    I wouldn't be unhappy if I had kept the 2335. But, the Xeno is great!
     
  4. JMesh

    JMesh New Friend

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    Ok, in case you didn't know, this is not a Yamaha specific problem. The Bach Stradivarius I have has a slight problem with it (although it is over 20 years old). This happens to all instruments over time, it's just a result of use and acidity in saliva. If you use cheaper materials, you get it more.

    And also, it's usually much easier to see on plated instruments, but it happens on lacquer instruments, just that you can't see it.
     
  5. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

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    Yee HAW!
    Not true. I had a guy sit beside me in band with a LACQUER 2335... red rot on the valve casings. My daughter's tenor sax... LACQUER. You CAN see it quite easily on a lacquer horn; probably more easily than on a silver horn.

    My comment had more to do with the recommendation that someone buy or not buy a YAMAHA based on valve problems: I think that Yamaha's past red-rot problems are possibly just as relevant to making that kind of decision. I'll readily acknowledge that Yamaha isn't the only brand of horn to have red rot.
     
  6. tpter1

    tpter1 Forte User

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    You're right again,Toots. It is just as relevant. My 6345 is almost (wait a minute...it is!) 20 years old this year. No red rot on it that I can see, but I've eaten through the plating on the valve casing and where my fingers normally are on the horn. It IS present on the valve spring housings on my C. I understand from Roy Lawler that it begins in manufacture. A horn that is soaked too long in the acid bath (to remove excess solder?) can end up with red-rot problems. Something to do with pulling the zinc out. (Which is why he does not soak his but instead uses a cloth-type thing to remove excess).
     
  7. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

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    Yee HAW!
    I refrained from adding that the old YCR 2330 cornet that I owned had spots of redrot on the leadpipe... and it was in lacquer also. I sold it at least three years back... and it is still being played today without having had a leadpipe replacement. Not only that... but it was a red-brass leadpipe! Had great valves though and is soo in tune as to die for.

    A gentleman who now sits in our section in community band is now long retired from the military... where he was a musician. He still plays his silver-plated Yamaha 720 (I think that's the model...custom-ordered with 1st trigger) that he originally purchased to play in the military band. That would have to have been at least 20 years ago...in the Yamalloy days. NO signs of red rot on it (and the valves are just fine too!)

    The entire point being... different manufacturers have had different problems at different times: quality control at one time, a poor selection of materials at another, bad basic design at some other point, different management or ownership... the list can go on and on. Even though past history would normally be an indicator of potential problems, you just can't make a blanket statement with respect to musical instruments without knowing the entire history of the company. THEN, when that is over with, you have to put the number of complaints you hear into perspective: with relation to the total number of instruments made by that company. 100 complaints about Bach might compare statistically with 1 complaint about Taylor.

    "All generalizations are dangerous".
     

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