progression with lip slurs

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by jellesmiecht, Aug 10, 2012.

  1. jellesmiecht

    jellesmiecht New Friend

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    Jun 1, 2012
    Hi,

    I began with a very solid practice routine 2 weeks ago and there are already improvements in my playing.
    Except for my lip slurs, I just can't seem to improve it. Are lip slurs something that take a lot longer to progress?
    It's just that all other things go so well and improve rapidly but the lip slurs stay behind.

    Am I just impatient or am I doing something 'wrong'
     
  2. DaTrump

    DaTrump Forte User

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    Impatient most likely. Keep working on your lip slurs, it takes time to build up your lip muscles.
     
  3. GijsVis

    GijsVis Piano User

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    Jul 23, 2012
    It takes time, lot of time. It's probable one of the most important andhardest things to learn on trumpet, don't say that would be high notes, you need a good slurring to play musically, you don't need high notes for that, though it both takes training of the muscles, but what really helps as well is good aur support. Lots and lots and lots of air going through your horn. It can also depent on how you practise slurring, what book/exercises are you using? I can recommend using Allen Vizzutti's method (especially his first book) or Flexus (don't know if it's available in the States, in Holland it is), which basicly has the same system of fingering all through the book, with increasingly difficult slurs. They help.

    But remember, take your time, my high C/D were there before good lipslurring, which I now quite regret, it could and mostly will take several months to learn, just keep on doing it over and over again.
     
  4. BrotherBACH

    BrotherBACH Piano User

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    Oct 5, 2010
    If you are talking about "harmonic" lip slurs using the different valve combinations, I sympethize with you a great deal. Lip slurs were/are a very difficult skill. You may hear all kinds "trumpet jargon" advice that is accurate but means very little to someone in the beginning of it all like, "use your air", or "its all about tongue levels", etc. With consistent practice, though, you will stumble upon it go "ah-ha" that is what they mean. For sure!

    From my own personal experience, it took almost three years to feel the air stream across my tongue and learn to manipulate it with a tongue arch. As I would raise the tongue the air would go faster. However, since the air is now moving through a narrower space you have to "support" (another jargon term) the air coming up from the belly by pushing harder from your base. Beacuse this is mostly done with the tongue and air support, your corners will still get fatigued as they maintain the lips relaxed and in position. Lips slurs ironically are "not" done with the lips.

    I hope this helps --- from a fellow struggler.

    BrotherBACH
     
  5. jellesmiecht

    jellesmiecht New Friend

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    Jun 1, 2012
    Well, I am good at lip slurs, but it's just that I can't make myself a decent scheme or routine for it,

    With scales and finger flex I can just write down the metronome times and I can perfectly monitor my progress, with double tonguing I can hear a difference every day and eventually use metronome to when its coming along , but the lip slurs are different everyday and not even close to consistent,

    so maybe I need to make exercises for myself that slowly build up in matter of about 2 months and then get back to the methods like arban and allen vizzutti because I'm hitting a brick wall with them.
     
  6. ultratrumpet

    ultratrumpet Piano User

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    1/ Start with a big comfortable breath, and the chest up, as always.
    2/ Blow full tones...do not peck.
    3/ Think "TEE" on the top note, and "TAW" on the low notes.
    4/ Give a little "kick" or accent of air on the top note.
    5/ Keep the wind moving.

    Use harmonic fingerings wherever it is appropriate to do so. Play as smoothly as you can.
    Use more wind on the upper notes. And most importantly, learn to use Claude Gordon's KTM.

    To strengthen muscles, one must progressively put more demands on them. But this must be done very gradually, and in small increments
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2012
  7. jellesmiecht

    jellesmiecht New Friend

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    Jun 1, 2012
    Some additional information, it's not like I started playing 2 weeks ago, but started more serious and less random studying, I've been playing for 9 years now and I know how to play lip slurs (no offense)

    What I'm asking is more of a method of development with lip slurs which can be monitored just as easily as writing down metronome times with scales.
    There are thousands of threads already of 'how to do lip slurs' but I can't find answer to the question above.
     
  8. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

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    I'm not sure how to put values on slurs so you can follow the progress. :dontknow:

    Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't find lip slurring difficult. You just need the right gear (I'm kidding!). What I have trouble with is slurring down into the pedal tones. With open valves, going from C to G and back to C and then down to the pedal tone, and back up. That's the biggest slurring jump I've found so far ....... Like anything, lip slurring takes practice.


    Turtle
     
  9. jellesmiecht

    jellesmiecht New Friend

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    Jun 1, 2012
    The difficulty depends on your goal...I think, the basics of lip slurs are rather easy, but finding an efficient way to develop them is really hard.

    And progress motivates, and I'm not 'seeing' (hearing) progress (while it may be there) is frustrating, it's almost like feeling that you 'waste' 15 minutes on lip slurs

    As for progress, maybe it can be sorted in interval and speed, maybe range at some point
    So does anyone have an idea?
     
  10. turtlejimmy

    turtlejimmy Utimate User

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    Oregon
    That's a thought. Interval and speed .... You may have to develop your own program. I know what you mean .... You have them down pretty well (to whatever range you have), you keep doing them .... What's happening? Are they improving? Yeah, I understand.


    Turtle
     

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