Question about Double C

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by bach37, Apr 19, 2012.

  1. bach37

    bach37 Pianissimo User

    Dec 1, 2011
    I have been playing trumpet for about 14 years now. I take lessons. I have a decent upper range. As in E above the staff very consistant and can play on cue. F and G on good days. But to my question. I have been reading posts and it seems like everybody here plays Double C or Super C as I like to call it. Even beginners or come back players after a 30 year break. What's the deal. I just don't get it. My instructor can as that is understandable he is a very seasoned player and does it for a living. Just curious to see if they are just blowing smoke. Your thoughts?
  2. codyb226

    codyb226 Banned

    Mar 9, 2011
    Florida, US
    After a quick rule check, your safe. But by the skin of your teeth.

    I dont believe that everyone plays a super C here. I highly doubt it. The reason is all with the science of the trumpet. In the bell there are different points where different notes have their sweet spot. Once you get to the DHG there is no more room in the bell, so the sweet spot is outside of the horn. To get those notes it is all your lips and air, not the horn. That is why any note above High F is rare, some people can not physically do it.

    Range is not important, not at all. Tell me, how many pieces have you played where the C is written in the part? I have never seen one. Usually it ends on high C and they take it up because they can. Style and tone trump range everyday. I say you only need a range to the D that is above high C. If you can get that, you can play 95% of all songs fine in terms of your range.

    Read the first post in this thread: Dont bother reading any other ones, I didnt go through them but I am sure someone in there disagrees.

    I think your range is good and solid, be proud of it. No need to worry about the ones with the double C. If that is a goal of yours, to play the DHC then so be it. Work on that goal, but dont cause any harm to your playing.

    I dont know if I answered your question how you wanted or not, but I hope I did.

  3. bach37

    bach37 Pianissimo User

    Dec 1, 2011
    Yeah I made very sure not to post something that hasn't been covered. Just pure curiosity on how full of crap some people are. Thanks for the compliment on my range. I am proud of it. Took a lot of work. Also My teacher and I already have a plan so I don't need any advice. Rowak gave great answers on several posts about the allustious note. Yes I have read them all. That is why I have came up this this question.
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    I think someone is really confused here. Sweet spot, bell, no room? This is the problem when young players read, do not understand but blog like the engineer.

    Fact is that the double C is part of the partial series and slots like most other notes. The reason that most can't play it is that they have not trained correctly and/or long enough. My belief is that ANYONE can learn to play a double C but most do not have the talent to use it once they get it. All that is required to hit it is the proper synchronizing of the chops, tongue, breathing. Those factors also affect our endurance.

    What Cody didn't understand or read yet is that depending on the horn, the efficiency at the very top of the range goes down. This is due to the construction of the trumpet. That means that depending on the horn, the player has to work harder to get the same volume of sound. The resistance that one feels at the top of our range is not the horn, rather our squeezing off of the lips with arm simple pressure. We have to blow harder to overcome that. Less efficient horns simply are quieter at the top of the range

    In my thread "How a trumpet works" that is sticky, I describe the process of the standing wave in the horn and travelling from note to note. A pedal C has one wavelength in the horn, the low C 2 wavelengths, G is 3 wavelengths and third space C is 4, the E above that is 5 wavelengths, G on top of the staff is 6, the flat Bb when played open is 7 and c above the staff is 8 wavelengths. As we are dividing the horn into ever more wavelengths as we play higher, we call each note achieved this way as a "PARTIAL". We can plainly see from this "simplistic" explanation, there is a mathematical relationship. All of the Cs are multiples of one another Pedal C 1, low C 2, third space C 4, high C 8 and double C 16 wavelengths in the horn.

    Last time that I looked and measured, there was still plenty of room for a double C in every trumpet bell and no sweet spots governing its production. The efficiency issue is real however. It is based on the flare of the bell, the proportion of cylindrical to tapered bore on the horn and the mouthpiece geometry. A more efficient horn will appear to play "stuffier" if breathing and body use issues are not solved first.

    So Bach37, do not be fooled by the fools with imaginary super powers on the internet. With your claimed range to an E, F or G, you are in the top third of trumpet players in the world. Because you can name the notes where the range stops, I have enough proof that PRESSURE is your main method. To switch from pressure to "better", old habits have to be unlearned and new ones built. Most of the time body use and breathing are the most critical. The path to much more upper register can be tough depending on the severity of current habits and playing schedule. The internet will not provide the key (or the lessons). You will need to find a "local" teacher that has holistic teaching powers and experience with range as well as musical style to give the range purpose.
    mctrumpet98 likes this.
  5. Pete Anderson

    Pete Anderson Pianissimo User

    Feb 27, 2008
    A decent amount of people can squeak out a DHC. Fewer can sort of play one sometimes. Very very VERY few people can actually play a strong DHC consistently, on command, any day of the week, at the end of a piece.

    I don't think a whole lot of people claim to be able to play good DHC's? I've never gotten that impression, anyways.
  6. xjb0906

    xjb0906 Piano User

    May 2, 2009
    Charlotte NC
    Hello, my name is Jimmy and I can't play a double C.
    Solar Bell likes this.
  7. jiarby

    jiarby Fortissimo User

    May 7, 2011
    I think that the guys that CAN are pretty vocal about it... so it seems like there is more of them than there are.
  8. Peter McNeill

    Peter McNeill Utimate User

    Jan 30, 2009
    Melbourne Australia
    Umm...I can't..

    But I am working on it. Bach37, we have the same range. Now a C16 - that explains a lot. I have only got to the High G when working up using scales etc. I thought that there was a larger gap, did not realise I have to get another 4 notes. I knew the D,E,F,G, were open, but the way rowuk explains it, I have a long way to go. So i will have to live a lot longer to get there.

    BTW my teacher who plays daily and teaches in the education Dept, and several bands, so is pretty seasoned, doesn't play above the High G. But he swaps to Eb soprano up top anyway, he says he feels more comfortable with the accuracy.
  9. ultratrumpet

    ultratrumpet Piano User

    Jul 10, 2009
    Old Lyme, Connecticut
    " Double C or Super C as I like to call it" bach 37

    Dbl. Pedal C / Great C
    Pedal C / Small C
    C 1 / Middle C
    C 2
    High C / C3
    Double C / C4
    Triple C / C5

    Clyde E. Hunt
  10. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

    Dec 22, 2008
    Ah yes! Sailing the Seven C's! Good stuff.
    coolerdave likes this.

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