question on mouthpiece change

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Patrick9654, Jul 29, 2010.

  1. Patrick9654

    Patrick9654 New Friend

    Mar 14, 2008
    I was told that I should change mouthpieces. I use a 3c right now but was trying to change to 5c. After I got done about an hour of practice my lips felt wierd. Not tired out but just wierd maybe a little sore. That feeling stayed for most of the day. I stopped trying the 5c because I don't want to injure my lips. Is this a normal feeling or can I actually damage my lips?

  2. treble_forte

    treble_forte Pianissimo User

    Sep 11, 2007
    N. Ireland
    Did a teacher suggest the change?

    What and where do you play? Do you have a teacher?

    Just a couple of formalities, really.

    The reason the 5C can hurt more is the rim - it is quite thin and raised to the inside, and if you are prone to a little pressure you will feel it - the 3C rim is wider and flatter. Personally, if you are happy with the 3C I see no need to change. Some people get notions that you need to play what they play and others have "prescriptions" for mouthpieces. What you need is a teacher who can guide you and who isn't just set on placing you on a 1C or a 10 1/2C. The frequently used analogy is that mouthpieces are like shoes - you wouldn't tell me what size of shoe to wear, right? Maybe in a shoe shop they can suggest some to try... but that is their job!

    If you feel like getting nerdy, pop onto:

    Kanstul Mouthpiece Comparator

    Select 3c on the BASE model and overlay whatever you want to see how the rims match up. It is quite fun!

    Finally, if you want a few suggestions on what you could *try*, I am sure we can help here!

    Take care, and go back to the 3c if that 5c hurts!

  3. Markie

    Markie Forte User

    Jan 4, 2009
    Clarksburg, WV
    Treble forte has given you some really good info. I can't add to it other than to listen to what he's told you. Great job TF.
  4. treble_forte

    treble_forte Pianissimo User

    Sep 11, 2007
    N. Ireland
    My thanks, Markie!

    There have been some very good threads about tone production and flow studies, it would be worth anyone's read - it might help you if you have some pressure issues, even small ones!

    Urban Agnas, who is a phenomenal trumpeter, has some good information on his website, specifically:

    Urban Agnas, trumpet soloist, teacher and coach

    There you can download some free excerpts from his book, though his book is only 13 euros - a mouthpiece is easily 4x that...

    Take care,
  5. TrumpetMD

    TrumpetMD Fortissimo User

    Oct 22, 2008
    Great advice has already been given. So let me make a comment from the other end of the spectrum. This is under the assumption that it was your teacher who suggested that you change mouthpieces.

    A mouthpiece change will take several weeks (maybe several months) to get used to. Ask your teacher how to approach this change.

    Again, this is under the assumption that he/she directed you to do this. If not, it might be best to stick with the 3C. The Bach 3C is a great all-around mouthpiece, which many of us play (including myself).
  6. Mamba21500

    Mamba21500 Piano User

    Feb 26, 2009
    A great saying that Rowuk uses is "don't fix what's not broken", this applies here. There is nothing wrong with a 3C, they are very popular mouthpieces, and very balanced. If you get on well with it, why change?
  7. Markie

    Markie Forte User

    Jan 4, 2009
    Clarksburg, WV
    Hi TF,
    I checked out Urban's videos on Flow and I just wanted to say thank you for the great tip.
  8. treble_forte

    treble_forte Pianissimo User

    Sep 11, 2007
    N. Ireland
    Hey Markie,

    Glad you liked them - I find them very useful! I really like his approach to playing and teaching. His sound is amazing as well, a really good sound model to have I reckon!

    I saw you liked his Anthropology - that is intense eh!? When I heard him play the head I thought... "classical cat does jazz" then when he started improvising :O His kids are incredible too!! They can't be any age!

  9. Dark Knight

    Dark Knight Pianissimo User

    Apr 7, 2010

    I am just "cutting-and pasting" my response from an another thread that is very relevant:

    I can now give my own experience with the Bach 7C, 5C, and 3C issue. I have had the 7C since I was a pre-teen. I have been working seriously for a year now and only the past couple of months did the 7C start to feel uncomfortable and actually too small; it just did not feel right in terms of finding a seat on my embouchure which is different than when I was a pre-teen. Dire warnings against a mouthpiece safari and fear that I may be seeking a new mouthpiece to compensate for some in adequacy in my playing prevented me from exploring options other than a 7C. I discussed the matter with my teacher who said that I may be developing into a different mouthpiece such as a 5C or a 3C. I ordered both off of eBay.

    The results are as follows. I love the sound of the 3C but hate how it feels. The rim felt bigger and fatter and I was unable to get a kinaesthetic sense of what I was doing. I just did not like it. The 5C was love at first sight. It immediately felt better and it sat on my embouchure the way I would like. I don’t know what makes it sit better and feel more natural; it may be bigger in diameter with a smaller rim. There was also a better kinaesthetic sense of what I am doing with my lips when playing.

    I had my first lesson with the 5C today and the teacher noticed an improvement in tone; she could tell the difference. I did not magically hit high notes or gain stability in the lower range. Everything is basically the same except with less effort and greater comfort. There may be a degree of efficiency that comes when the mouthpiece better matches the chops; I honestly don’t know. I say that because I was not winded after a previously arduous (for me) etude.

    Hope this helps.

    Best Wishes,

  10. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    We should only change mouthpieces when we know what the present situation is, know where we want to go AND have identified what the mouthpiece can really do to get us there.

    I find it interesting that we get flooded with equipment change posts AFTER school lets out. I can only assume that the teacher is not involved in the decision - otherwise the post would have come in March, which gives us time to research and make an INTELLIGENT DECISION! Actually changing stuff like this is really suited to summer vacation - if we are getting guidance the whole time. No band or performances to suffer during the process.

    Without a clear picture of what is wrong with your playing now and what you think a mouthpiece can do to change it, I consider any decision STUPID. Do not be stupid. I can only think of very few instances where a switch from a 3C to 5C would make any sense.

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