Range Improvement

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by PaigeBurnett, Nov 25, 2011.

  1. PaigeBurnett

    PaigeBurnett New Friend

    5
    1
    Nov 18, 2011
    You probably get range questions a lot so hopefully nothing will be repeated!
    But, I am a grade 10 student, but I didn't do music in grade 9, I am only relying on my prior grade 6,7 and 8 elementary school skills. It shows in my playing, but I have been able to keep up decently with my class mates. The only thing that really shows is in my range. On a good day I can hit the G above the staff :bash: but I need to be able to hit the C. Tips and exercises would be much appreciated! I have read a few of these forums and you all seem like very intelligent and knowledgeable people! Thanks!
     
  2. Mark_Kindy

    Mark_Kindy Mezzo Forte User

    875
    202
    Jul 11, 2010
    Gainesville, FL
    This is a dangerous topic to tread here. Good luck...haha

    But this may help; just don't overthink it:

    When you use more air, but prevent the aperture from increasing in size, then it acts like putting your thumb over the end of a hose. The water pressure increases internally, and the water speeds up and shoots out. Likewise, air will do the same. If you move more air through, it will cause the air to speed up. Speeding up the air (and therefore the vibrations) is what causes pitch to rise. You can test this by starting on a low C, and blow "harder" while maintaining the same sized hole for the air to move through. At some point, the pitch should change to second line G, in the staff.

    If we just blow more air, but don't keep the aperture the same size, the air does not speed up; there is just more of it. This then causes an increase in volume (dynamic), instead of the desired pitch change.

    What I've seen most teachers recommend is learning to play softly. This trains you that to play high, you don't necessarily have to play loudly. This also prevents you from overblowing and trying to play loud in order to reach high notes. Over time, you will develop more air control.

    I suggest playing and flow or Clarke studies softly, so you can be sure that the air is continuous. You want an airstream that is focused on some level, and moves through phrases so as to connect the notes (no matter the styling).

    Hope this might help.
     
  3. codyb226

    codyb226 Banned

    2,660
    354
    Mar 9, 2011
    Florida, US
    Here we go again......

    The best way to get higher is to not get a new mouthpiece, or trumpet, or anything else. To go higher you need your lips to vibrate at a very fast rate. To make them vibrate faster you need to blow more air. You should also raise the back of your tongue so it is touching the roof of your mouth. Some people stretch their lips out super thin to help but I find it better to keep you mouthpiece and lips the same just push my outer lips into the mouthpiece, but not actually into the cup part.
    In order to play high you need to play low to build up your muscles. Work on the low notes and your pedal tones.
     
  4. silverbenge97

    silverbenge97 New Friend

    3
    0
    May 29, 2011
    Louisiana
    LIP SLURS, for the long run but instead of ta say tee to tongue up high. Lip slurs you can use bai Lins are good or just make up ur own(just go through the parciles[sp] on each fingering)
     
  5. Phil986

    Phil986 Forte User

    1,094
    329
    Nov 16, 2009
    Near Portland, OR.
    Practice every day. Establish a solid routine. Pay attention to breathing and body use. Eliminate unnecessary tension. Be patient, there are good days and bad days. If you can "hit" the G on top of the staff on a good day, you have a way to go. For many of us, these 2 additional partials (yes there are 2 of them, a Bb is there between G and C) are tougher to develop than all the ones up to G.

    If you're looking for a trick that will, all of a sudden, allow you to meet certain demands, you are in for a disappointment. There is no short cut. Be aware and accepting of that fact. If your classmates practice every day too, it is unlikely you'll catch up with them any time soon. Be realistic in your expectations. I don't know your playing, ot anything about you for that matter. It is possible you'll be the next prodigy. However, on the horizon of a few months, there is only so much that can happen.

    There is how you would like to compare with your classmates, there is what your director wants, all sorts of other considerations, and there is music. Music is the only thing that really matters. If you can understand that and keep the big picture in mind, you're less likely to be disappointed and more likley to continue playing and progressing.
     
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,611
    7,955
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    It is nice to see that copy/paste works, but for a player that only has a G on a good day, we have to determine IF that is because of bad habits which of course need to be cured or if the problem is simply practicing too little in which there is NO HOPE.

    Before offering range advice, we need to look at what works and what doesn't now.

    I have NEVER run into a player with limited range that does not have breathing problems. I have a routine to cure this. It is called "circle of breath" and you can google it here.

    Without a foundation of air, no wind instrument works properly. Fixing this will probably give you a high C without changing anything else.

    Normally, players whose range stops on a specific note, get high notes by mashing the mouthpiece into their lips. Using this type of pressure works (for a while). When trying to reduce pressure at the lips, normally range and endurance disappear until the muscles are built up to take over the work. That means months of monitored practice to break old habits and learn new ones.

    Forget fast air, it is plain BS. Even if it were true, it would only serve to increase tension during playing! Forget pushing harder, this also does not help anything if the fundemental concept of breathing stinks. In the case of this player, I am positive that tension needs to be replaced by smart and that is only going to happen in a monitored environment - meaning teacher. The goal must be to reduce tension. The lips do not work like a thumb over the waterhose. We are blowing into a mouthpiece and that keeps anything like this from working. Stretching lips is an invitation to destroy the embouchure. Arching the back of the tongue is often an invite to destroy ones tone. Any arch should be part of a much bigger process after the air issue has been solved. Internet advice in this direction shows that the posters really don't know what they are recommending.

    I can only repeat myself: Kiddies who don't have any practical experience offer pretty crappy advice - even copy paste MUST stay in context. You are helping NO ONE by increasing your post count with half truths, myths and lies.
     
  7. guitarsrmine

    guitarsrmine Piano User

    270
    71
    Dec 29, 2008
    Franklin, Pa
    1 word...........PRACTICE..............like the old saying goes,"You gotta walk, before you can run".whats the point in blasting out a high-C if you cant play a C major scale???? Or if your tone sucks.....or if you cant play low notes clean and full.....theres alot of great advisers on here, so listen to them all...they have helped me become a WAY better player....not just in increasing my range, but all aspects of my playing.....Im in my 3rd year as a "comeback"player,Im 51,and was trumpet-less in my life for over 25 years,so I listen to the people on here,and you need to as well......tone, my friend.....TONE!!!! Thats whats my #1 goal is......gotta have life in your tone.....whether its bright and brassy, or soft and velvety......you're young,so you've got your whole life ahead of you.......basics are VITAL.......and so is listening....good luck!!:play:
     
  8. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

    8,612
    2,128
    Sep 20, 2009
    New York State USA
    kingtrumpet says --- that the C will come in TIME -- saying I NEED IT NOW will only lead to frustration in your many attemps to blast it out. I think the best think you can actually do for the moment is CONTRARY to what you may think.
    I would seriously play notes in the staff (like 2nd line G, and notes above A, B, C) -- anyways go as high AS IS COMFORTABLE for you with good sound. I would play these notes softly, and hold them as long as I could in tune, then I would repeat this (taking a break if necessary). BY taking these lower notes and playing them soft, long, and hold them (and play them that way for 5, 10, or 15 minutes or so --dont' push to far too fast) -- then I am certain that within a few weeks you will see improvement in TONE AND RANGE AND ENDURANCE. Practice this every other day or so, being sure to take a day off (or at least a light day where you work on something else - ie rhythm, tonguing, etc --- this will give your body time to recooperate.

    you are still building the embouchure and face muscles -- and at the lower notes you should not be stressing your body out trying to HIT a note that is not in reach at the moment -----
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2011
  9. Mark_Kindy

    Mark_Kindy Mezzo Forte User

    875
    202
    Jul 11, 2010
    Gainesville, FL
    The physics of the matter would implore you to reconsider. You cannot have a higher pitch without the lips vibrating at a higher frequency. That can only happen with a faster, focused column of air to support it.

    A quote from "Physics in the Arts" byGilber and Haeberli:

    "..the trumpet player can produce a fifth by overblowing from the second more (2f) into the third mode (3f)."

    And from Georgetown's Physics II Class: "Even without touching the valves, a good trumpet player can produce a variety of higher pitched notes using higher-order vibrational modes. What is the air inside the trumpet doing while it’s oscillating in one of these higher-order modes? The frequency of oscillation increases. The air is traveling about faster." --
    http://www.physics.georgetown.edu/~mcclure/solution6.html

    Here you note that air is required to play a trumpet properly. But you know you can't just blow the same speed of air and expect notes to change, and I'm sure that you yourself don't do this in your playing. If a rise of pitch occurs without increasing air while maintaining aperture size, then it's due to the aperture reducing in size while maintaining air,(Bernoulli's Principle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli's_principle) and thereby increasing air pressure and speed; or else, pressure of the mouthpiece, accomplishing the same thing by smashing the aperture.

    The mouthpiece effectively works as an amplifying mechanism to the vibrating air. The only difference from mouthpiece to mouthpiece is how the air is compressed once it enters (as far as airstream is concerned). The action of the aperture and airstream remains consistent.

    All this I have learned from my studies in physics, especially regarding Nick Drozdoff; studies of Pops' teachings in relaxation; lessons from successful jazz trumpet player and teacher Scott Wilson; lessons from a successful recently passed trumpet performer and physics and music teacher Dr. Dean Musson; and lessons with former ITG President Dr. Joyce Davis. They all concur.

    It not easily discarded nor refuted, and has led to much of my improvement over the last two years.



    In regards to my previous post, I should have also clarified that increases in volume and pitch are not mutually exclusive; it just requires that you speed up a larger AMOUNT of air. Amount (volume) of air controls dynamics, air speed controls pitch.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2011
  10. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

    8,612
    2,128
    Sep 20, 2009
    New York State USA
    Mark -- yes I had a post a few months back that asked rowuk to reconsider Physics 101, and the speed at which air moves through the aperture (assuming the aperture were to stay a consistent size -- then to create higher pitch with a higher frequency ---- well as we say here -- YOU DO THE PHYSICS!!!!!!!) I think we just did!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROFL ROFL ROFL

    I heard GERMAN Beer is better than AUSSIE beer --- NOW THAT MY FRIEND IS JUST PURE BS!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROFL ROFL ROFL
     

Share This Page