Range - Pressure - Practice Time

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by note360, Oct 30, 2006.

  1. note360

    note360 Piano User

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    Oct 16, 2006
    In a room in a house
    Any way I recently got a nice new mouthpiece (Schilke 14A4) and it is great. However, I ahve observed that over the past 4 days I had with it my range has went from a Dubba C (above actually) to now a high of B. What happened. Am I over exerting my lip with my new hour a day schedule or mouthpiece. Should I shorten my practice sessions. Maybe I should do more shorter (30 minute) sessions. I have been trying to put less pressure on my lips, but It is a hard habit to break, but I think I am almost there.

    What is your advice on this subject? I have been trying to get better, but it seems my chops are getting worse (actually my technique is much better). Should I take a rest or maybe revise my schedule of practice?

    (Note, I use a 3C to practice with. Every once in a while I take out the new mouthpiece)
     
  2. eisprl

    eisprl Mezzo Piano User

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    Coming from someone who has a long history of mouthpiece switching, I would say that what you are experienceing is totally normal. When you try out a new mouthpiece, you stick it in you horn and start playing. Because you don't know what to expect, your mind is free(er) to hear without any biases. You are used to the mouthpiece you were using and you know how it works. Once you try a MP that you think you like (either because you got a nice "dubba C" in the shop or you really like the sound) you will buy it and keep using it. Once you use it for a period of time you realize that there are some things that may suffer (range as you have already dicovered). Once this is discovered, you switch back to the old mouthpiece. Then you find yourself constantly switching back and forth between the two (or three, or four etc).

    I am in that rutt right now. I use a GR mouthpiece (Chase Sanborn model) and for some reason my chops really suffer on this piece when I am "out of shape". Therefore I switch to my previous one (GR 67MX). Does anybody understand what I mean when I say some mouthpieces are difficult to play if you are out of shape? (I'll make a new post on that one).

    Also, you say that you have recently been lessening the amount of pressure you use. (Recently when? since you got this new MP?) The biggest piece of advice I could give you right now is:

    DO NOT COMBINE EMBECHOURE CHANGES WITH A NEW MOUTH PIECE!

    if you are still comfortable on your 3c I would stay on that until you figure out what works best for you, embechoure wise. Then, once you find a setting you are comfortable with, switch to your Schilke.

    Also, I would reccomend that more than an hours worth of practice is due at any time (not just when you are switching mouth pieces).

    Also long tones on the new MP couldn't hurt

    Step in anyone - I'll just keep rambling on and on and on and on........

    Eric
     
  3. note360

    note360 Piano User

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    Oct 16, 2006
    In a room in a house
    Oh sorry. The Schilke is a Lead Piece (guess I didn't make that clear). I am confsed as how to get used to a lead piece and still be able to play on a all around piece.

    Oh and as far as the hour goes I am moving up to a hour from 30 minutes or less of practice a day. I want to work my self into a 1:30 hour thing eventually, but step by step. I am already beign made fun of because I practice so often, though I don't care. (I am a freshman in HS)
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2006
  4. bilboinsa

    bilboinsa Piano User

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    Jan 24, 2006
    San Antonio, TX
    360:
    I play a 14A4a (smaller throat than yours), and the "all around piece" is very do-able. I find that my lower notes need special attention for intonation, as I can bend the crud out of anything on or under the staff--especially when I get to 3rd space C. The notes below the staff are really tricky, and they do require extra concentration for me to get them sounding nice and fat. Once you get "seated" with the mp, you may love it, or hate it. It is a very personal thing.
     
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    The 14a4 mouthpiece is shallow, so any pressure exerted will force the lips into the cup, which can completely stop any sound production. Playing lead with this piece requires air, air and more air! If you don't support properly, your chops have to do more work, then they swell and the mouthpiece cup is full of lip again.
    It is possible to switch with a bigger mouthpiece (I used to switch between the 14a4a and a Schilke 18) - you just have to practice the switch. After a couple of years I started playing lead with a Bach 10 1/2E. It was less work for me than the Schilke.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2006
  6. TangneyK

    TangneyK Pianissimo User

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    Nov 10, 2003
    Phoenix, AZ
    I play 3 mouthpieces. They're all Bob Reeves, and they all have a 42 rim. Each one has a different backbore and cup, which dramatically influence my sound. They all "feel" very similar.

    Kevin
     
  7. reversedlead

    reversedlead New Friend

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    Jul 10, 2005
    Seattle
    Just stay on the 3C man, or change totally to the new mouthpiece.

    I say this because through past experiences of my own (and others...) switching mouthpieces frequently (during the day) WILL ruin your embouchure and inevitably your sound. Your body cannot adapt to sudden quick changes in the mouthpiece. Most reputable mouthpiece manufactures (i.e., Monette and GR) and HUNDREDS college professors will tell you it can take up to two months to get fully used to a mouthpiece. You cant change back and forth multiple times in a day and make it work well. It is a shortcut that can work ok, for a short period, but in the long run, learn to play on just one.

    The best advice any teacher ever gave me (happens to be my college professor) was to find a mouthpiece that was comfortable, that produced the sound in my mind and that fit the all around playing bill. Be able to play classical, lead, solo, section, whatever on the mouthpiece you choose. Playing high is easy on a 3C, as it by itself is a fairly shallow mouthpiece. If you can hear yourself playing a high F (above staff) on a lead mouthpiece, you can certainly do it on a 3C. No mouthpiece can give you what you dont already have. Trumpet playing is 90% air, 9% mental and 1% everything else. If your breath is open and free, and your mind is clear and open to the thought of playing high on your 3C, it will happen. One thing is necessary: PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE... there are no shortcuts in the world of trumpet. If there were, we would have found them already. Bud Herseth, Wayne Bergeron, Phil Smith, Manny, Miles Davis, Wynton, etc etc etc, all got to where they were by practicing.

    Best of wishes and good luck!,
    Brandon
     
  8. note360

    note360 Piano User

    269
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    Oct 16, 2006
    In a room in a house
    I know but now that I spen tthe money I have to use it. I know you get their by practicing. The shallower mouthpiece was meant as a experiment, but what once looked like a good idea now looked like a bad idea. i know the 3c is a good all-around mouthpiece, but the schilke gives me a tone I like for jazz, just the tone I love.

    Rowuk what do you suggest to get used to it. I know it is possible. If I only needed to play jazz I may have just changed, but I also need to play classical for school band.
     
  9. eisprl

    eisprl Mezzo Piano User

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    I spent $400 on a match set of mouthpieces (flugel and trumpet). Turns out I dont use the flugel one any more and in regards to the trumpet one, I am revertting back to my old one. It is an expensive art and profession.
     
  10. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Hi Note360,
    When I was at the Navy School of Music in the mid 70s, I got some lessons from a great high note player that had false teeth. He couldn't play with pressure as the teeth were not firmly anchored. We worked on tongue placement and solved the 14a4a technique that way. It is probably dangerous to try and explain it without standing next to you, but it consisted of putting the tip of my tongue on the lower teeth (and leaving it there), tonguing with the consonant "D" and keeping the back of my tongue arched high. His theory (that works for me) was that the smaller channel for the air increased its velocity, making high notes easier. It took 2 or 3 months to really get used to this, but I was able to switch mouthpieces and tongue position on demand afterwards.
    I do not recommend self help embouchure changes!

    I like the 14a4a sound for lead much better than a 3c or anything else deep for that matter. In many non professional settings, a massive lead sound does not help the section sound.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2006

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