Re: Range and Pedal Tones

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by camelbrass, Dec 20, 2003.

  1. Local 357

    Local 357 Banned

    Jul 1, 2011
    Pedals are a catalyst to range production. Once the higher range is developed? The pedals are almost obsolete. Like training wheels on your first bike.

    Though you won't convince some trumpet players of this fact. They use pedals as a crutch: To re-invigorate an embouchure that really needs rest.

    So they blow themselves into embouchure exhaustion, play a few pedals, rinse & repeat. A perfect recipe for over training. Then they wonder where their accuracy, sound and ease of playing went.
  2. yourbrassinstructor

    yourbrassinstructor Banned

    Sep 30, 2008
    I can't believe my post is still up! I further can't believe that I can agree with some of what Rowuk is saying here:

    Of course Pedals do not help everybody, but by saying that, one could look at a glass 1/2 full of water and say it is half empty.

    Bud Brisbois, mentioned pedal tones never helped him and he never invested much time in playing pedal tones.
    There are others as well.
    However, on average and if done properly, Pedal Tones do help in a lot of ways.
    Is it the only KEY to the upper register? Of course not!

    Every possible technique and way of playing the trumpet could be done wrong and result in injury or other dangers.

    Playing and blasting pedal tones to extreme dynamic levels in the 3rd and 4th tiers of the pedal tones could likely be fact, your lips will warn you because as they flap exaggeratedly, one can feel the sharp pain.

    Although Bud Brisbois was one of the most precise and accurate high note trumpet artists of all time and didn't need pedal tones, Most of us don't have Bud's unusual talent.
    I have yet to see someone start working with me and not become more solid, more accurate, experience better endurance, and see a little bit more upper register added....but there could be some players that might not be helped, I just haven't met them yet.
    Of course, someone could start my program tomorrow and in a month or two might let me know that pedal tones were a waste of time for them....but since pedals are only 1/50th of what I teach, it would not likely stunt their progress.

    Lastly, You don't have too much to lose by at least giving them a shot. I am not in love with pedals as I have 49 other techniques and tools to go through before I move on to etudes and music and other things
  3. yourbrassinstructor

    yourbrassinstructor Banned

    Sep 30, 2008
    100% Correct!
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    The fundemental tones on a trumpet are based on the length of the instrument. They are pedal C (0), B(2), Bb(1), A(12), Ab(23), G(13) and Gb(123). The first partial is an octave higher and use the same fingerings. That means, I run out of "natural" tones on a a trumpet if I start on low C and want to play a chromatic scale down to pedal C (this is where a 4th valve on a flugel, picc, euphonium and tuba help). To get the F below low Gb, I have to lip down some note. If I use the first valve as Kurt did in his video, I am lipping low Bb down, low E with 12 is lipping an A down.....

    as far as your post still being here, it was polite, informative and full of trumpet info. Deletes are due to nasty language and moves come from off topics.

    One topic not covered is why pedals are controversial. My personal belief here is that they are so because too many that use them claim magical powers. Those that do not use them can also have the magic and don't accept the blind faith. I have personally only used them in college (under the supervision of my prof) when I "had to". The result back then was no additional anything except a raspier tone. I never have taught them.
  5. Jerry Freedman

    Jerry Freedman Piano User

    Mar 4, 2005
    The opinion here seems to be that pedal tones can be useful for some players providing that they are done properly. However there is disagreement about what "properly" means. Pedal tones according to Claude Gordon are different from pedal tones according to Carmine Caruso and those are different from Jeanne Pocius which are still different from Callet/Balanced Embouchure. So what does "properly" mean?
  6. yourbrassinstructor

    yourbrassinstructor Banned

    Sep 30, 2008
    YES! For anyone browsing through this discussion and wondering to themselves if investing a lot of time in playing PEDAL TONES would be a panacea for quickly improving their trumpet playing.... the answer is NO!

    You might find PEDALS work wonders or you may find you get a raspy tone. However, while working pedals, work IRONS, COLIN, MAGGIO STEVENS, TCE, CLARKE, ARBAN, CHARLIER, LONG TONES, TRANSPOSITION, LIP BUZZING, MP BUZZING, MULTPILE TONGUEING, SOFT SCALES, BREATHING TECHNIQUES....the list goes on and on and on.....for every player, one or more techniques will simply click!

    And so it is easy to get excited about on technique, but always keep in mind we need to keep exploring other options!

    Previously, I use to LOVE doing about 20 minutes of Clarke Studies #1! I would do them soft, fast, over and pedals!

    I still do them now, but of course, after a few minutes I go to pedals..after a few minutes of pedals, I do to free buzzing, then multiple tonguing, etc...
    Life is short so making it interesting can be fun and have benefits!
  7. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

    Dec 22, 2008
    Actually, the french horn player and I "dual" to see who can play the lowest note. The band gets a kick out of it (especially since I play a shallow mpc) but the singer doesn't really appreciate it. Go figure! :roll:
    On a side note, I believe they help with flexibility.
  8. EdMann

    EdMann Mezzo Forte User

    Sep 20, 2007
    Los Angeles
    Actually, I don't like hearing anyone warm up next to me, but we all do, pedals, high notes, chromatics, whatever it takes to get the sound right. Who cares if there are pedal tones. They're fundamental tones, after all.

  9. Haste2

    Haste2 Piano User

    Jun 16, 2010
    I wish pedal tones could give instant range and endurance. It could definitely help get you one step closer to that, though.

    It's all about getting the body to work properly as one mechanism and having all the needed muscles developed....thus, if you are lacking in other areas, you can be the world's greatest master of pedal tones and still have bad range/endurance, because one strong part of the whole trumpet-playing mechanism does not compensate well for other weaker parts.
  10. BrotherBACH

    BrotherBACH Piano User

    Oct 5, 2010
    I really like this great exchange.

    Pedals where emphasized from my very first lesson with my current teach which started about a year ago. My teacher did not learn pedals himself until later in his profession career; he learned them from other musicians on the job. He had a circus job which he says are very grueling and another member of his section was doing pedals to help recuperate between shows.

    My teacher does and recommends pedals because it reinforces good habits that translate to across the register, not to attain the upper register. And, of course good habits make playing easier. Pedals require lots of air support, a relaxed approached to playing with only “sufficient” mouthpiece pressure. They are good for pitch training. Slurring down to the pedal register and back up into the stave is used to reinforce the development of one embouchure. There is also confidence that is gain by taming the “beast” and forcing it to do something that it does not want to do.

    Personally, after a year of pedals, I used them for a completely different reason than my teacher intended. If the pedal register is a struggle during my warm-up, it is a sure sign that my chops are stiff and I am overdoing it, so I will ease up a bit for that particular day and forge ahead when my pedal register is once again robust. So, I use pedals as an indicator of training status.


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