reasons for dizziness when playing "high notes"

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by coolerdave, Aug 27, 2012.

  1. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

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    Thank you!
     
  2. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

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    It's not a question of the body getting stronger.Any one can have this happen to them if they do it wrong. It's not high notes that causes the brain to get compressed,it's trying to play them too loud with too much pressure and tension.

    I play high notes all night and have not had a head ache,black out or dizziness once, since I figured it out 37 years ago. Don't force it. You have to learn to play relaxed.What causes these symptoms is bad playing mechanics,not a double high anything.

    The cure isn't reducing the length time you're doing it wrong .The cure is to learn how to do it correctly.The lose of blood flow isn't caused by playing high notes,it's caused by playing high notes incorrectly.
     
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  3. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

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    Agreed. The higher you player, the more crucial it is to use proper breathing, posture, embouchure, torso control, etc.
     
  4. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    This is a sign of oxygen not getting effectively to the brain. Performing a Valsalva manuever may in fact be the most likely cause, but cutting off the oxygen supply would be right up there. Lack of Oxygen was the cause for me went I moved from Ohio to Colorado. In this case, a deceased oxygen pressure for a lower number of red blood cells to carry the oxygen that was available. Each person may have their own reason for diminishing their oxygen supply... not enough breath going into the phrase, pinching off the airway with strain, or not waiting 3 months for your RBC supply to increase when moving to a higer altitude. But it is unlikely the symptoms described by Coolerdave is vasovagel syncope (the "brain freeze" cause). These are two very different etiologies with different fixes.

    As a physician, Local's advice I would have to support which is one of oxygen decrease:

    A. Reducing the length of time the brain is experiencing a reduction to loss of blood flow (and oxygenation).
    A.1. So take either a bigger breath or diminish the resistance to airflow - in other words - RELAX
    A.1.c. If a lowlander in an elevated place and you cannot wait 3 months, either go in for blood doping (which has it's risks) or nasal canula oxygen at 2 liters per minute.

    B. Reduce the volume of these high notes so as to lessen blood flow stoppage.

    C. Combination of A & B above.

    That'll be $278 or a $15 copay with your insurance. Pay the nice lady at the door.
     
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  5. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

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    okay..
    thanks everyone for taking the time on this..
    I actually don't get headaches ... I used the brain freeze analogy to decribe the lag between the end of the note and onset of dizziness.
    I am not playing the note loud but I am positive I have too much pressure built up in my lungs. So having all the air in my lungs and getting dizzy was bugging me. I couldn't figure out how I wasn't getting oxygen but the key is getting it to the brain.
    Best money is on the Valsalva thing occurring. I'll do some self evaluation and see what I come up with.
     
  6. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    The cure is easy with the Valsalva. Don't Valsalva. Don't close off the glottus which is what triggers this reflex. Closing off the glottus by pressured grunting cases the vagus nerve to feed back to the heart to decrease pre-load, or decreasing the left ventricular filling volume. The heart also slows it's rate so cardiac output is drastically reduced. When you do this, there is less oxygenated blood to flow to system organs, the brain of which is most sensitive since it is most effected by gravity by being furthest gravitational distance away from the pressure source (the heart).

    SO if you can relax your approach to playing you will not elicit a cardiac reflex which is mostly about blood flow and not so related to air flow from the lung, such that breathing, posture, embouchure, torso control has little to do with the effect you want to minimize coolerdave.
     
  7. jiarby

    jiarby Fortissimo User

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    lol!
     
  8. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

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    so I need to change my mouthpiece?
     
  9. Local 357

    Local 357 Banned

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    Its what it does. The human body is subject to the same forces as air flowing through a pipe. Or inflating a football.

    In fact I once tested my own ability to pressurize a pipe system within a house. You need about twenty foot of say 1 inch inner diameter pipe. Close the far end with a cap and connect a tee fitting to the near end with a valve and an air pressure gauge like this one:

    40MM-pressure-gauge-base-entry-0-15-psi-air-and-oil-image-No.jpg


    Blow like hell into the pipe. Before releasing your air support close the valve to retain the pressure inside the pipe and look at the reading on the gauge. I can put something between 6 - 8 PSI within a closed system like this using every ounce of strength my lungs can put out.

    And yes it HURTS to put out that kind of air pressure...
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
  10. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

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    Hey Doc... what is that?
     

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