Regarding my first lesson

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Gxman, Feb 10, 2014.

  1. Gxman

    Gxman Piano User

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    Jan 21, 2010
    Thanks for that Vulgano,

    Dr.Mark, I was not questioning my teacher simply because the sound he gets is a sound I would love to emulate as it was so 'clear'. I was just trying to understand from an educational point why Greg Spence made it out (to how I understood it anyway), that 'most people play wrong' because most people 'buzz' on the mouthpiece which 'defeats the purpose' of the design of the 'mouthpiece receiver' which is supposed to cause the mouth to buzz and thus you buzzing = too tight.

    This idea sounded very controversial to me because that is basically saying 'everything trumpet players learned in the last 1000 years is wrong, I have a better suggestion of how trumpet actually should be taught, so be careful if your teacher is also stuck in the wrong way of thinking and thus teaching you to be another player that plays wrong"

    That is the idea I received from his video. Perhaps I misunderstood, but that is what I left with after watching them (prior to having a real teacher - one in person - )

    So when I was in the lesson, told to buzz, I couldn't buzz, yet I know if I Plugged it into the trumpet it would buzz. However it made sense at the same time, by allowing that, I am actually allowing the trumpet to control me as I am reliant on the MP being in the trumpet before my lips buzz instead of Buzzing the exact note I want then putting it into the trumpet and knowing that is the note I will get and allowing the trumpet to amplify what I am actually doing. Thus I am telling the trumpet what to do, not "blow air" (greg spence) and then let the trumpet tell me 'ok you will buzz now' once I put MP into the receiver. Which again to me sounds like trumpet telling you not you telling the trumpet.

    Anyways I looked at some stuff so far, had a nice close view of Wynton Marsalis warming up, I had a listen to Chris Botti etc. It seems to me Marsalis also has the DIM shape lip. His lips in relaxed position are all stuck out (similar to mine) yet while he is playing I noticed him holding them 'rolled in' in comparison to his relaxed position, or better said, in the DIM position. Even when he breaths I can see him open the mouth but retain the DIM position so his lips dont fall back into the 'out' position.

    My teacher said to do DIM... I just saw someone very obviously doing that who is world class.

    To me this was important because the whole 'blow candles out' idea that I received off the net (to not be too tight, buzz etc), never gave me the DIM position and this is the very first thing my teacher picked on. He told me my lips are pushing into the mouthpiece like a horse. Eeek.

    Chris Botti mentioned buzzing as important. Was a short segment, but "like blowing into the air but through a tube you have to buzz the lips at the same time"

    Which again, as my teacher said "buzz through the mouthpiece" makes sense again considering 2 players here mentioned do the DIM and the Buzz and both world renowned.

    So that just tells me "what the hell is Greg Spence on about then" making it out as though everyone is wrong, or at least, leaving that impression that doing that is wrong, which then would state marsalis and Botti play wrong since they do it the traditional way so to speak that I am being taught right now.

    Breke - was not questioning my teacher as explained. Questioning why Greg Spence left to interpretation (like myself before I got a real teacher) for people to THINK that buzzing is wrong when the world's best do that.

    I am just looking at it from the point of view from where I came from. I tried to learn online, due to time, money, distance etc, and there may be many many other people trying to do the same. They also can find Greg Spence videos, and they also can leave with the impression that majority of trumpet players were taught wrong because they buzz. It can also therefor colour the way people think about trumpet playing and having a mindset that 'the traditional way' is the 'false way' and thus be convinced and in their belief system that all other ways are actually wrong. This is what I am questioning. If I had done this online stuff and thought "Greg spence was not saying buzzing is wrong, he just has another idea" would not be an issue. But I left with the impression he was flat out saying 'everyone is wrong, buzzing is wrong, you need to change the way you think, this is how it really should be'. So think about how many people that perhaps for whatever reason cant get a real teacher, sit there listening to that and if they are programed to believe "hey everyone IS actually playing wrong" because they found these free online lessons (such as I did).

    Thankfully I have no problem changing, but some may. This is what is in question for me because to me, that says more evil than good will come out of that.
     
  2. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

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    Hi Gxman,
    You stated (in bold)
    I was not questioning my teacher simply because the sound he gets is a sound I would love to emulate as it was so 'clear'. I was just trying to understand from an educational point.
    ----
    Really?!? seriously!?! I'm sorry but what does that even mean that "you are trying to understand from an educational point?"
    ----
    However im just trying to cross reference this with this youtube guy saying the opposite and whatever else.
    ----
    Why? Isn't the info you're paying for giving you enough to do? Of what importance (at this stage of the game) is looking at opposing views? I'm sorry, I just don't get it
    ----
    I've been harsh but I will leave you with something to think about because I would like you to succeed.
    Can a teacher can't fill a glass that's already full?
    Remember this isn't logic and debate class for first year law students. You need to take a leap of faith and give the guy a chance. In time you'll grow to hopefully trust his advice because that's all he can do, give you advice. You must teach you because no one else can. See!! There's the great secret!! YOU are the teacher, Greg is only a facilitator. Only you can train your brain.
    Dr.Mark
     
  3. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

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    Respectfully I would recommend that you stop trying to "cross reference" anything regarding free videos you find on the internet.

    You latched on to ONE video series that presents information in a different way and you now seem bent on challenging those who teach a traditional post to prove why they are right????

    How about starting with a more conservative/traditional approach that has been successful for thousands of trumpet players and then challenging the off-beat guy to prove himself right?

    Or how about just learning how to play the horn and analyze it later?
     
  4. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    Good point by gbdeamer. A clinic, live or on the internet, only shows us how a particular trumpeter sees the trumpet and what works for them. A good flesh and blood, live, 3-D, here and now teacher tries to find what works for you.
     
  5. Gxman

    Gxman Piano User

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    Jan 21, 2010
    I think people here have quickly skimmed over what I have actually said because there was a lot and the wrong conclusion was thus gathered. You have thought I am questioning the teacher, which is the opposite to what I am actually saying.

    I was not questioning my teacher because all the world class players do the whole buzz thing. Rafael Mendez, Chris Botti, Wynton Marsalis, James Morrison and whoever else.

    I was just expressing that watching those videos gave me the wrong idea. It gave me the idea that buzzing etc is wrong which would state all the best players that have been (Mendez) and still are, are all playing wrong.

    So if anything is wrong here it is not the buzzing the teacher said but the online videos.

    If I was left with this impression by the videos "you heard people say this, you notice all the best players do this buzzing, however, I would like to suggest that perhaps there is another way it could also be played which may work better for you" - There would be no problem or harm from this. It is clearly pointing out that the traditional way works, but there is another method you may like to try which has been worked out which perhaps may work better for you.

    But I was left with "Buzzing is wrong, this is what you should be doing" - In which case all that is left to conclude is marsalis, mendez, morrison, botti, the entire way its taught since forever is actually wrong and they all play wrong because they are players that learned from years ago the wrong way, so yeah it works for them but really you should not be playing like that.

    The fact it was not left as a "suggestion" but as a "fact/statement" is what got me. It was that concept that was in my mind that made it hard when I was at my music lesson because in the back of my mind "but buzzing is not right, Greg Spence made that clear, and you are making me buzz". I did what the teacher said, but in my emotions I did not feel confident because "But Greg Spence said..." - all because I was not left with the impression he was 'suggesting' his way but stating all other ways were wrong.

    All I can say is, since im now Buzzing, I can hear myself that the sound is actually more controlled, and a lot richer in tone. So this to me is the way it SHOULD be done. I'm just getting at how Greg Spence's video was done, words he used (non suggestive) can effect someones perception and make it hard to change. If it was just a suggestion it would not have been so difficult in the lesson because end of the day, it was just a suggestion so no big deal. I hope you can see the point im making now.

    Greg Spence would do better if he made it clear this is a suggestion, not basically make it out that the traditional way all world class players have learned is the "wrong way". That was my gripe cause his way of doing it made it HARD for me the first day to get around.
     
  6. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

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    Some people buzz. Some don't. Personally I think it is a waste of time to do anything buzz related things away from the trumpet because the resistance and feel is completely different than actually playing.

    Don't get so hung up about it. Just do what your teacher says. Buzzing won't be the straw that breaks the camel's back in regards to being a top flight player.
     
  7. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

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    Hi Gxman,
    you stated:
    "I think people here have quickly skimmed over what I have actually said because there was a lot and the wrong conclusion was thus gathered.
    -----
    "Thus?" What the heck does "thus" mean?
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    Yes, it's important that you not take responsibility for your words and blame not getting the answers you want on our inability to fully understand or comprehend the written word. I pulled out your own words and commented on them. The bottom line? You're not getting the reinforcement you want from this site. Ya know, I think this site is becoming like your new teacher, something to question because it doesn't fit what you "think" you need. The crazy thing is, you don't know what you need because you lack the requist skill and knowledge and when someone tries to help you, you question it. How do we know? Look at your questions and the way they are phrased.
    ---------
    You have thought I am questioning the teacher, which is the opposite to what I am actually saying.
    --------
    Nope, I know what you said, how you said it and when you said it. You must think the people on on this site are dim. You go on to say we have an inability to read and comprehend. This behavior is brash and rude. Trust me when I say the people on this site are very sharp and you are running on the fast track to pissing them off. I wish you God's speed in whatever it is you're looking for. I'm out of here. This is a waste of time for both you and me. Grow up and then email me when you have a serious question.
    Good luck!
    Dr.Mark
     
  8. Gxman

    Gxman Piano User

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    Jan 21, 2010
    Interesting that you are the only one replying like a complete dumbass that has on purpose taken things out of context. I was asking fair things and expressing my feelings to certain things. If you did not like what I said, you did not have to respond. take your tantrums elsewhere. I have no time for little children. :troll:

    My simple thing was, i was very impressed and happy with my first lesson. What I did not understand was why Spence decided to make it out that everyone else is wrong and thus confuse the mind. If you cant understand this... then sign out of the damn forum.
     
  9. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

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    You're out of line here.

    You accuse him of being childish when you're the one name-calling.

    You posted on an open internet forum. You can't control the responses you'll get.

    Read the thread again. You're the one who started the confusion and you're now attacking people in an attempt to save face.

    To quote YOU, "If you cant understand this... then sign out of the damn forum."
     
  10. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    Dang, I thought that was a pretty good post of mine, largely ignored....

    It is expected that when we move to a new teacher we do so with a beginner's mind, a clean slate as it were, or an empty cup. It is dangerous if the student is the least bit skeptical. Children are a joy to teach, because they don't know any better. Adults can be a royal pain in the butt when they come up with those "I saw..." or "I read..." or "my old teacher..." remarks. A part of me wants to yell at them (shock therapy) "If what you saw, read or what your old teacher said was so correct, why aren't you so good that you don't need lessons!"

    I think what some of our members were reacting to was your lack of this beginner's mind.
     

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