Removing step at mouthpiece receiver

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Dale Proctor, Jun 9, 2014.

  1. Dale Proctor

    Dale Proctor Utimate User

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    Has anyone here removed the inside step at the mouthpipe/receiver junction, or at least chamfered it? Specifically I'm thinking Bach 184 cornet, but I'd be interested in hearing the results from doing it on any horn.
     
  2. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    What is it that you propose to accomplish? As I perceive what you propose (1) you want zero gap, (2) You'll zero chamfer-sharpen both interior of mouthpiece shank and the interior of the leadpipe to a precision mating of dimensions yet re-assembled apart with the same gap as they were originally (with what result???), or (3) you seek a Mouthpiece - leadpipe as a single unit like Wynton's Monette.
     
  3. Dale Proctor

    Dale Proctor Utimate User

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    No, I'm really thinking of having a smooth transition in the mouthpipe so there's nothing to measure a gap to. Maybe gapless is the word. I have some other cornets that are built that way and they seem to play fine. The variance in cornet shank tapers and length make some of the ones I have unusable on the Bach - either they have a huge gap, or they bottom out before seating.
     
  4. stumac

    stumac Fortissimo User

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    I have made an extended No1 Morse taper reamer and removed the step at the beginning of the leadpipe in several trumpets, the most noticeable effect is to make the horn more free blowing, I dont know if there is an acoustic effect or just increasing the diameter of the venturi.

    Some of my best playing horns have no step at the junction of the receiver and leadpipe.

    I have 2 leadpipes for my Eclipse the same, one I have removed the step, the blow has significantly changed, when I get some time I will check the tuning of the 2 pipes and the effect on the harmonic contact. One of my favorite mouthpieces has a 117 backbore with a very thin wall at the end, another area for experimentation. I notice the Dennis Wick cornet mouthpiece I have has a deep chamfer at the end.

    So many questions, so little time to find the answers

    Regards, Stuart.
     
  5. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    Now you're homing in on 1 or 2 as I wrote before. To almost eliminate the step, it seems you'll need a mouthpiece shank end with identical with inside and outer dimensions of the leadpipe at it's beginning and a mouthpiece taper that allows the mouthpiece to precisely abut the beginning or the leadpipe. The receiver then being little more than a ferrule connector that you then hope will equal a one piece mouthpiece-leadpipe like Wynton's. When all is designed that way it works, otherwise maybe it will and maybe it won't.
     
  6. VetPsychWars

    VetPsychWars Fortissimo User

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    If the person who claimed he was a former Bach employee has told me the truth, that cornet is based on the Buescher 400, which had an exposed mouthpipe end after WWII... don't know about before (probably blended). I'd see if anyone has one and will measure the depth of that exposed end and then set your receiver back a bit or have the mouthpipe trimmed.

    Tom
     
  7. Bugle Bandito

    Bugle Bandito Pianissimo User

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    Sweet Yamaha Cornet Uses Standard Trumpet Mouthpiece w 7c Nice Case Bin | eBay
    Dale, this is one I sold recently. I hope it still shows up. I didn't take credit for the work in the listing, but I actually did the work. Got the horn at the flea market with no mouthpiece. And of course I didn't have one either. 1st brace needed soldering anyway so I started. Added slightly more heat and pulled the adapter at the same time. Then, after a small amount of measuring, added some love and an old Blessing receiver I had laying around. I took a very sharp bit and, by hand, cut away inside at the old leadpipe until I was happy that most any trumpet piece would bump or nearly touch, then I polished the inner joint with a dowel, a cloth and auto rubbing compound until the sharp edge was gone. Presto. The damned thing worked out well, sounds good and I have several dozen trumpet pieces. My son played it at home and school with the band, no worries. Fact, a friend of mine in El Paso played it with several different mp's and found the right one for him. He's played for like 22 years and he could make the little horn sing.
    I realize, by some person's opinions, that I have probably committed trumpet blaspheme, a cardinal sin, or some other such crime. So go on and label me, chastise me, beat me with a handful of wet spaghetti, lol! I had fun doing it. Southern inginuity at it's finest.
     
  8. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    I would probably try filing the shank of a mouthpiece off first until I had no gap.

    My experience is that for horns designed to have gap (like my Bach C and Monette), the pitch is less centered when it is gone. For horns like a Schilke S22, it is perfectly centered in spite of not having a gap. generally I believe that gap is WAY overrated on the list of important things. I think that your experiment could be very interesting - assuming that the mouthpiece shank also was very sharp and free from step at the end.
     
  9. Dale Proctor

    Dale Proctor Utimate User

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    The reason I asked the question is that unlike the Bach, most of my cornets have no internal receiver/leadpipe step. I have an assortment of cornet mouthpieces that when used on the Bach, range from a huge gap of 3/8" (Denis Wick) to bottoming out (Schilke). These fit my other cornets fine and play well, as there's nothing to produce a gap in them. I agree that a sharp internal taper at the end of the mouthpiece shank is probably best when there's no internal step in the leadpipe. I'll wait a bit longer for any other responses and then decide if I want to make the Bach gapless.
     

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