Repetition of scales, arps, patterns, etc.

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by DiaxII, Mar 8, 2013.

  1. ultratrumpet

    ultratrumpet Piano User

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    Let's say we have a velocity study of 8 measures in 4/4 time of 16th notes. Take each group of 8 notes as a section or segment. Play the first 8 notes 5 times in a row, if you make a mistake or miss a note you must start again with time number one. Than do the same with segment number two, five times. Than play from the beginning to that point once. If you make a mistake you must start again. Than we play segment three five times in a row. And from the beginning to that point once, and so on until we get to the top. Remember to use all models; single tongue, "K" tongue, Double tongue, Slur 2, Slur 4, Slur all (in one breath).

    Repetition is the mother of perfection.
    Bill Vacchiano
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2013
  2. DiaxII

    DiaxII Pianissimo User

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    Yes I see your point my friends. The goal defines the number of repetitions. Of course scales are not music and some even argue if there is any point in playing sclaes at all. Those say 'Learn and play melodies and not scales'.

    I think when we talk about the repetitions of short musical untis (let's for the purpose of our discussion assume scales are also part of the music) we set multiple goals. As it was mentioned on the previous page if you've memorised the fingerings it doesn't mean yet you own that scale. If you can repeat the unit flawlessly several times in a row it gives you confidence that you own the piece. However that's not the only goal of repetition and maybe even not the goal but a product of the repetition.
    Honestly I fail to define the goal of the scale repetition clearly.

    I can only think in this way: Why to play scales at all? Because:
    - Scales train fingers for a specific key (home major key and its modes). The goal is to make the fingers fluid in the key context.
    - Scales and their derivatives train ears to hear intervals (scales + arps + patterns). The goal is to play the intervals correctly before you attempt to apply them to the real music.
    - Scales train lips to build endurance with a number of repetitions. A piece of real music does not usually stop after 8 measures. If we take a popular standard it's usually 32 bars long. So it probably makes sense to repeat the figure 4 times if it's 8 bars long to come closer to the performing situation.

    Why I started this conversation is because we play scales from memory. When you have a piece of the written music your goal is to play from the beginning to the end and the score defines how many measures you play. With something played from memory it's easier to stop before you've reached your specific goal (what is it by the way?) or overplay otherwise.

    I agree that perhaps 3 or 4 repetitions is a good number for 8 bars of a scale-wise movement.

    So the point of my question could be best summarised as 'continuity vs fragmentation'.
     
  3. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    There is a technique known as "looping," where the problematic passage gets repeated: starting slowly then speeding up until is above tempo. This can be worthwhile when the intervals or fingerings are awkward for a single player, and can be worked out at home. In ensemble play it usually involves difficult rhythms and the ability to piece the rhythms together.
     
  4. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    also record yourself --- and listen to the playback -- keep these recordings to check on improvement from week to week ----- I SUSPECT you are improving and don't even realize it!!!!!!
     
  5. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    KT, Have you heard some of DiaxII's recordings... he is already at a level where further improvement will pull him way ahead of most of us here on TM.... The is except for Vulgano Brother, Solar Bell and Rowuk... They are light years ahead.
     
  6. DiaxII

    DiaxII Pianissimo User

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    I don't know why you are so sarcastic for no apparent reason. Did I say anything that insulted you personally?
    I'm light years behind most of the TM members and therefore I ask for advice. If I was light years ahead I'd have no time posting here because I would be in demand.
     
  7. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    DiaxII, I don't think anyone is being overly sarcastic, at least not to you. Truth is, there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to repetition, because it is situational. Our learning styles entail the aural, the visual and the tactile; everyone is "gifted" in different ways. Some folk can play back anything played to them; others can read sight-read anything put in front of them; a few can do both.

    Was "rehearsing" a Bach fugue with a German brass quintet for an upcoming concert, and we had passed the "learning" phase and were working our way through the "boring" phase--it opened with a horn solo, and he bobbled the third note. My voice came in next and I bobbled the same note on purpose to match him. We lasted another few measures before we broke out in laughter. Sarcasm? Maybe. But musical and in good fun too.
     
  8. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    DiaxII... I am so sorry... Please no disrespect. I am an old man with a feeble mind. I got your identify confused with Dani021. I clearly have a D dyslexia and with the combination of the i, a and numbers/roman numerals... I do hope you see how this could happen. Friends?:sorry:
     
  9. sounds7

    sounds7 Forte User

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    The best way to play scales and patterns is by making yourself transpose them into all keys by ear (Not reading music in all 12 keys) I usually do mine around the circle of 5ths , stepwise and chromatically.
     
  10. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

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    not exactly what you are asking but close in nature
    I determine the number of repeats usually by the amount of air it takes to play it.
    I like mixing up Clarkes Technical Studies and Vizzutti's Book 1 exercises.
    I use a metronome.
    I do one exercise slurred another tongued and another double and/or triple tongued
    I like the Vizzutti's because he uses minor, diminished, and whole tones patterns.
    Now I'll admit to being lazy and not using a metronome and most of us who have had formal training probably can play a good portion of the Clarke's eyes closed but to get the real benefit and smooth precision you should use a metronome.
    I also use the amount of times I play as a way of building up my wind ... It won't take you very long to figure out where you run out of air on certain exercises and at certain ranges .. so I try to make it just a little bit further before I need a quick breath to finish the passage.
     

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