reverse lead pipe

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by harleyt26, Dec 16, 2009.

  1. harleyt26

    harleyt26 Mezzo Forte User

    928
    337
    Dec 9, 2009
    Summerfield,Fl.
    I am new here and have had no luck using the search button to find info on the reverse lead pipes. I would like to know what that would achieve and get opinions if that is good or not. I have a 18A Conn that has a small dent in the bottom of the lead pipe (it is the only mark on it).I have purchased a new lead pipe but before having in installed I would like to know if having the pipe reversed in the mouthpiece adapter would be of benefit of not.


    Thank you,
    Tom Hodges
     
  2. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

    3,186
    977
    Mar 21, 2006
    Toronto
    A reverse LP doesn't occur at the mouthpiece end. It involves taking the upper-inside tuning slide off of the main tuning slide and switching it with the upper-outer tuning slide that is attached to the leadpipe.

    This reversal of the upper main tuning slide tubing makes it so the front 'S' brace has to be moved backwards towards the valve block. It frees up the bell to vibrate more. This can affect the projection of the horn, as well as the feedback the player gets.

    Whether this is a good thing is up to the individual player. I have reversed slides on some of my horns, and on others I don't.

    A small dent on a leadpipe is no reason to purchase an entirely new leadpipe. Leadpipe dents are pretty fixable. The tool I use to repair leadpipe dents cost me maybe $50 and has never let me down. I have yet to replace a leadpipe at work unless it has been cracked badly or rotted out.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
  3. harleyt26

    harleyt26 Mezzo Forte User

    928
    337
    Dec 9, 2009
    Summerfield,Fl.
    I found a photo of the reverse slide you mention. Thats an interesting idea but it seems that the extra bell vibes would be hard on the soldered brace that was reversed. I was talking about swapping the leadpipe ends so that the larger end is at the mouthpiece and tapers smaller as it goes toward the tuning slide bend. It was said that it gives it a more open feel.
    I have recently sent my 18A cornet in to have the dings removed (from loaning it to a cousin) it was returned from dent removal with that one small dent in the under side of the leadpipe. I assumed they were not able to remove it because of the taper and the location right next to the mouthpiece adapter. It is possible they just did not find it.
    I have already purchased the leadpipe but I will talk to the guy at the music shop to see if he can ask the repairman about removing that dent before I send it for replacement of the pipe. I will wait till I get my trumpet back from getting a brace resoldered first. I don't want to be without both at the same time.

    Thank you,
    Tom Hodges
     
  4. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

    3,186
    977
    Mar 21, 2006
    Toronto
    The leadpipe reversal you speak of does not exist. The large end of the leadipipe is too big to fit over the mouthpiece receiver, and the upper-outer main tuning slide is far too large to fit over the small end of the leadpipe. A proper solder joint couldn't be done.
    The extra vibrations won't affect the solder joint. They aren't strong enough to do anything to the horn.

    If the dent was not taken out, it may have just been deemed not worthy of removal. Sometimes it isn't worth chasing tiny dings because they don't affect the playability of the horn. Sometimes little dings don't even show on the other side of the tubing.


    Ask to talk to the repairman directly. Often times the floor reps at music stores don't know exactly what goes on behind the shop counter. This can lead to frustration for the tech and the customer because if we don't talk directly to the customer, it is hard to know exactly what they want.
     
  5. harleyt26

    harleyt26 Mezzo Forte User

    928
    337
    Dec 9, 2009
    Summerfield,Fl.
    Reverse leadpipe must be one of those terms used to slightly mislead a perspective buyer. About a third of the refurbished horns on e-bay supposedly have it done to them. I am an auto mechanic so I am used to these type of terms from the salesmen.

    The ding does not show but I know its there and the leadpipe has a very slight bend in it at that point,which is very close to the soldered brace at that end of the tube. You are right I do need to talk directly to the technician to see if it can be properly repaired or if replacement is necessary.

    This brings up another question. The trumpet I have sent in for a solder repair to the brace closest to the bell end is a Conn 18B. It is not a very expensive horn but I like to take very good care of my things. How much damage should I expect to the laquer finish from the repair? This would also apply to the 18A if leadpipe replacement is necessary.

    Thank you for helping Brekelefuw,if my questions are repetitive just point me to the threads with the answers in them.

    Tom Hodges
     
  6. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

    3,186
    977
    Mar 21, 2006
    Toronto
    I think it is called a reversed leadpipe because a 'reversed upper main tuning slide' is a mouthful, and I think the layman thinks the that leadpipe is made up of the mouthpiece receiver, the leadpipe and the upper main tuning slide.

    Lacquer damage depends on the skill of the tech and the type of lacquer. Sometimes as soon as the flame touches the lacquer it goes black, or starts to bubble, and sometimes it doesn't doesn't change colour at all. Yamaha lacquer is great, and rarely requires touch ups, but older horns generally don't fare as well.
    The tech might do a touchup on the lacquer, but it won't look as good as the original because he isn't relacquering the entire part. Just like when someone has a scrape on their door and uses one of those colouring pens to touch it up.
     
  7. harleyt26

    harleyt26 Mezzo Forte User

    928
    337
    Dec 9, 2009
    Summerfield,Fl.
    In the late 60s i sent my 18A back to Conn to have the coprion bell replaced,it had a very large dent and a very large dark spot under the laquer. I still cannot tell the bell has been replaced. They must have had a very good tech there.
    The 18B in the shop now is a made in Japan model,I think it may be made by Yamaha so maybe the laquer may be ok unless Yamaha farms out their offshoots.
    I think I will wait and spent the bucks to send my vintage 18A to a higher end facility, Would you care to recommend a good one for my situation,Its not a multi thousand dollar horn but it is in incredible condition.And its 53 years old.

    Thanks,
    Tom Hodges
     
  8. aerotim13

    aerotim13 New Friend

    34
    0
    Apr 24, 2009
    Rolla, Missouri
    my knowledge of fluid dynamics says to me that a leadpipe that got smaller in diameter as you went farther would make blowing more difficult... perhaps making the horn more "restrictive" I would be surprised if it were freer blowing. I've never heard of this before. It might have an interesting sound to try with some junker trumpet though.
     
  9. dhbailey

    dhbailey Piano User

    493
    4
    Jul 28, 2009
    New Hampshire
    They most likely relacquered the entire instrument after installing the new bell.

    You don't need to pay the prices of the high-end brass specialty shops such as Osmun Brass in Arlington, MA for a Conn 18A trumpet. It's like paying a maserati engine specialist to replace the spark plugs in a Ford Escort. Of course the high-end people can do the work necessary on the low-end instruments (if they will -- some high-end shops will only work on high-end instruments) but they can't use the all the skills you're paying them for on the lower end instrument (or car.)

    Your local repair tech should be able to do all that you need. If you're uncertain about the quality of his/her work, call some local high school band directors and ask who they send their brass work to for repairs.
     
  10. harleyt26

    harleyt26 Mezzo Forte User

    928
    337
    Dec 9, 2009
    Summerfield,Fl.
    So I should send my vintage 18A off to the shop that works on the local high schools rental horns. they may do a ok job but thats not the kind of input I was hoping for here. I am a little disapointed but thanks anyway.

    If that Mazerati tech cannot or will not do a really good job on those Escort plugs do you really want him working on your Mazerati?

    Thank You,
    Tom Hodges
     

Share This Page