reverse lead pipe

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by harleyt26, Dec 16, 2009.

  1. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,611
    7,953
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    Your knowledge of fluid dynamics does not apply to the trumpet. The trumpet works by getting a standing wave in the instrument started and maintained. The "airflow" is only required to make the lips open and close like a valve to get that standing wave started. read the thread on how a trumpet works that is sticky at the top of this forum to get a real perspective. Your fluid dynamics would only apply if the trumpet were a glorified megaphone. It is not.

    Changing the diameter of the bore at various places changes the acoustic length and therefore the tuning. The thickness of the metal or moving the braces affects more of what we assume to be "blow" than any other factor. The taper of the leadpipe affects the intonation more than anything else.
     
  2. dhbailey

    dhbailey Piano User

    493
    4
    Jul 28, 2009
    New Hampshire
    The maserati tech would do a fine job on replacing those Escort plugs, but he'd charge me the same as if he were working on a maserati, when in fact a mechanic at my corner garage would do just as fine a job replacing those Escort plugs and would charge me 1/4 of what a maserati tech would charge. Both would do an excellent job, but do I really need to pay the high price of a maserati tech?

    Do you really need to pay the prices of an instrument technician who works mostly on pro-level horns for the world's best players just to get a student model instrument repaired? Your local tech who works on the high school rental horns probably will do an excellent job for you -- why are you so reluctant to believe that?
     
  3. harleyt26

    harleyt26 Mezzo Forte User

    928
    337
    Dec 9, 2009
    Summerfield,Fl.
    Inadvertantly you answered the question. The guy at the corner garage could put plugs in the Mazerati as well as the Escort. But the guy with a classic vintage Ford Crown would rather have a better trained tech working on his investment. It would be easier to get replacement parts for the Mazerati than for the vintage one that parts are no longer made for. If the guy at the corner garage gets in over his head.

    The 18A was at the local repair shop and the dent in the leadpipe was overlooked or passed over possibly because of the difficulty of the job or the damage to the finish the repair might cause. If it would damage to the finish I would rather have the more qualified tech doing a first class repair on my vintage Esco... 18A.

    Why would it cause you such dismay to think of a classic horn in a top end shop?

    It does not sound like the reverse leadpipe is something I would want to do to this horn since I do wish to keep it as pristine and original as possible. I do have other horns I may choose one to experiment with. Thanks to everyone for your help.

    Thank you,
    Tom Hodges
     
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,611
    7,953
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    My experience is that the high end trumpet techs are very benevolent as long as you have not bought one of those <$100 indian or chinese lamp kits.

    They are fast and inexpensive. The hacks generally just end up creating more to repair.
     
  5. dhbailey

    dhbailey Piano User

    493
    4
    Jul 28, 2009
    New Hampshire
    It doesn't - I just don't view a Conn 18A as a "classic horn.":-)
     
  6. harleyt26

    harleyt26 Mezzo Forte User

    928
    337
    Dec 9, 2009
    Summerfield,Fl.
    I had a chinese made trumpet for a very short time.It felt cheap,it sounded cheap,and when dissasembled the valves were stamped out cheap stuff. the logo on the case and bell were untraceable,couldn't tell for sure what the letters were. I got it by trading out some labor on a car repair. His car still works fine,timing belt replacement,.I played the horn once and gave it to my grandson,8,to play with. I would not sell it to anyone.

    Tom Hodges
     
  7. dsr0057

    dsr0057 Pianissimo User

    99
    6
    Dec 20, 2009
    Denton, TX
    From what I can tell from this thread this is most likely what happened to your horn harleyt26.

    I work in instrument repair. I'm no where near a professional but I know enough to know right from wrong. I'm not saying the tech is a hack and couldn't get the dent out, what most likely happened is this: He either A)Forgot that there was a dent there and that you wanted it out and just didn't take it out. or B)Completely didn't see it at all.

    I can't tell you how many times that we repair technicians miss something as small as a dent like that. When you are in a shop you work based on commission so the more you do the more you get payed. So you want to get through as much as possible and when you get in that mind set you start going so fast, and get in a groove and overlook something like that; which is tragic and should never happen.

    Your best bet to get it fixed is to either A)Contact the local highschool band director and ask which shop they use and then take it to the head of the shop yourself (never let the guys in the front handle it) and make sure they know that you want that dent (or whatever) taken out -or- B)Find the high end repair guy in your area and make sure it gets done. I recommend talking to the band director first because they don't usually deal with crappy repair techs. They are, after all, on a budget and what the best for their buck. So the tech will be more reasonably priced and will mostly likely be more than capable to take that pesky dent out.

    If you are in the Dallas Fort Worth area I know of more than enough people who could help you out.

    Hope that helps.
     
  8. harleyt26

    harleyt26 Mezzo Forte User

    928
    337
    Dec 9, 2009
    Summerfield,Fl.
    Thank you dsr0057,I am an auto tech that works on commission so I can see first hand how that can happen. The local school bands do their instrument rentals through a local music shop that gets the instruments supplied from the repair facility. I went to the music shop (Paramore music in Ocala,Fl.) to send my horns in. I sent the cornet in first for minor ding removal only. When it returned I sent my trumpet in to get a brace resoldered. After picking the cornet up and dropping off the trumpet I later noticed the missed ding on the bottom of the leadpipe. I do not want to cause the tech any problem if he did just miss it, but I thought it might have been a case of not being able to fix it because of the location. I have already purchased a new leadpipe But if it can be fixed I would prefer to not risk unecessary damage to the finish. I have tried to contact the repair/rental facility through e-mail but have not recieved a response. I will try a phone call to them after I get my trumpet back and see the quality of the solder repair,I hope there will not be too much visible finish damage. It was a very nice horn also except for the bell brace loose from the leadpipe at the tuning pipe end. The website for the rental/repair facility is www.veritas-online.com . Check them out and tell me what you think. I am sure they are fine but I wouldn't mind some other opinions.

    Thank you
    Tom Hodges
     
  9. dsr0057

    dsr0057 Pianissimo User

    99
    6
    Dec 20, 2009
    Denton, TX
    Thanks for the link. That really helped.

    Alright so I noticed that they are a NAPBIRT facility which is great. National Association of Professional Band Instrument Repair Technicians is the official Association for Repairmen. Without at least one tech being recognized by them it is impossible to get parts or tools from the major tool supplier Allied Tools. So there is at least one person in that shop that has at least some inkling of an idea of how to remove dents. Just got to be very persistant and specific. And don't worry about worry about causing him a problem. He might get annoyed, but it is what you the customer wants and he should do it if it means money and repeat service.

    Hope that helps
     
  10. harleyt26

    harleyt26 Mezzo Forte User

    928
    337
    Dec 9, 2009
    Summerfield,Fl.
    Thanks that does make me a little more comfortable sending it to them. I will still wait till I get my trumpet back. They must be very busy,they seem to keep a horn about a month. I can't be without a horn at all,I need the escape time of the practice sessions for mental stability. :)

    Thank you
    Tom Hodges
     

Share This Page