Reverse Leadpipe

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Trumpet Dreamer, Dec 21, 2010.

  1. Trumpet Dreamer

    Trumpet Dreamer Mezzo Forte User

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    Exactly what does a reverse leadpipe do for you? Better air flow? Better tone?
     
  2. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    I've always heard "less resistance" and turbulence, therefore a better blow. I'm sure someone can come up with a more descriptive, scientific explanation. Only my Martin Committee has a reverse leadpipe.
     
  3. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

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    It changes the position of the front S brace, which changes the feedback to the player.
     
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Like Brek said, the front S brace is much further back. This allows the bell to vibrate more freely which can "leak" more info to the player - and perhaps less to the audience. It also changes the bracing pattern on the tuning slide as well as shortening the leadpipe.

    There is no set "difference" for this geometry. If we compare the Bach instruments, I would say my impression is that there is less "control" of the sound when we start to play louder. The point where the sound gets "splattier" is less defined. Some say that it is "easier" to play. My impression is different.
     
  5. Trumpet Dreamer

    Trumpet Dreamer Mezzo Forte User

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    This brings up another question and is related to the original...if a trumpet with a reverse leadpipe gives more feedback to the player, does it necessarily mean that the audience will receive less info?

    My Getzen has feedback out the kazoo, whereas my Yamaha has much less. So using this example, which of the two horns would the audience perceive as being more friendly to the ear, everything else being equal, of course.
     
  6. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

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    Your Getzen has much more feedback because it is a pro horn, and the Yamaha is a decent student model. Its comparing apples and oranges.

    Basically, if a horn releases vibrations around the body and bell, then there is more feedback to the player but less vibrations get out to the audience, whereas a horn that doesn't release vibrations to the player focuses them and sends it to the audience.

    When doing bracing, the the trumpet maker has to spend a lot of time fine-tuning the placement, foot size and weight of the braces to get the playing characteristics they want. A misplaced brace can make notes virtually disappear off the horn from messing with the vibrations and nodal points.
    When I was doing bracing replacements on one of my horns for the first time, I designed all the braces and then just plopped them on where I thought they should go. When play testing it I found that I could hardly even play the Bb in the staff. I had to remove and reshape the braces and then figure out the best place to put them so notes can sound fully in every register.

    Check out Monette's videos on his facebook. He talks about his braces taking more time to make and place on the horn than it takes other makers to build an entire horn.
     
  7. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    It is not quite that cut and dried. When I started using the term feedback to describe what we were designing into our trumpets, I was referring to feedback to the player, to make him feel connected to the instrument. The opposite of what we were striving for is an electronic keyboard attached to a separate amplifier. The keyboardist has no "connection" to the notes he is playing - there is zero interface between the player and the music.

    When the player is truly connected to the instrument, he feels more relaxed, assisted by the instrument etc. so is in a better position to play well. The opposite would be to play in an anechoic chamber - unable to feel or hear any of your playing.
     
  8. P76

    P76 New Friend

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    In my experience, the reversed leadpipe does make for an "easier" blow, with less resistance for the bore size.

    What I've read suggests that because there is no step in the leadpipe where the tuning slide slips in, there is less disturbance of the airflow in the reverse set up, leading to less resistance. This seems to make sense to me.

    Of course there are other ways to reduce resistance, by using different shaped tuning slides etc.

    FWIW, my Yam 634 (Reverse ML .460") is as easy to blow as my Large Bore Radial (Normal .470"), and my Yam 732 (Reverse .445") is about the same as my Olds Super (Normal .460"). The Super is a tighter blow than the 634, at the same bore size. Of course the venturi of the leadpipe and the tightness of the bell have some say in that too.

    Hope that makes sense!
    Cheers,
    Roger
     
  9. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    Not quite accurate. It is a cavity (a step out and then a step in), and it still exists; it is moved about 2 1/2" further down the horn between the end of the lead pipe and the beginning of the tuning slide bow.

    Actually, wouldn't a better name for this configuration be:
    Extended Lead Pipe?
     
  10. P76

    P76 New Friend

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    Thanks Ivan, I'm no physicist, or scientist of any sort, so quite happy to be corrected, although wouldn't the order of the step out and step in be different in the different configurations? Again, would be interested to know that.

    I agree, it should be call extended, "reverse" always sounds like it means it's been done the wrong way, when really in so many ways it's the right way to do it (IMHO).

    Cheers,
    Roger
     

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