Reverse Leadpipe

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Trumpet Dreamer, Dec 21, 2010.

  1. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    They both have the same shape and dimensions.

    Do you (P76) identify yourself with that funny car with the out-of-round steering wheel?:dontknow:
     
  2. P76

    P76 New Friend

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    OK, that's interesting to know - so it's just the extra length of the pipe which gives the feeling of ease?

    Yes, my brother and I own a few P76's between us, in varying states of disrepair - not many left now...and the steering wheel was round, I think you might be thinking of a Rover SD1?

    I can't seem to get this site to load a pic for me, but if you go to

    Leyland P76 - Australia's Own Car - The Hat-trick

    You'll see one.


    Cheers,
    Roger
     
  3. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    I have been thinking some more about reverse lead pipes, and, in my own weird way have decided to look at this issue from a different perspective; that of the manufacturer.

    Here is my latest blog post:
    ivan?s blog

    Happy Holidays to all!
     
  4. Trumpet Dreamer

    Trumpet Dreamer Mezzo Forte User

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    Thanks, Ivan. This is a good article and follows in line with some of the posts on similar subjects on this forum. And that is the sound quality is in the ear (mind) of the player.
    To take it another step, I would propose that if you (the player) think there is a benefit to the leadpipe being reversed, then there is a genuine benefit, whether it's real or imagined.

    Just wonder how many items used in promoting a trumpet (and there are many) actually fall into the category of being "snake oil"?
     
  5. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    I certainly believe that reverse lead pipes change the playing characteristics of a trumpet, and agree with Bob Malone (from the NY Yamaha Atelier), as quoted in the Brass Herald magazine, that everything you change on a trumpet changes its performance - in his interview he referred specifically to the presence or not of a water key on the third slide.

    I have done all sorts of experiments like removing a pull knob, shortening a brace foot, drilling a hole in a brace, punching holes in the bell flare etc. etc. All of these have had quite a profound effect on the playing of the trumpet; good and bad.
     
  6. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    I always thought the reverse lead pipe changed tuning and response. It eliminates a bump where the slide goes in or moves the bump farther down. It also changes the bump. I think it only will change certain notes for tuning. The bump has to be where the wave hits to effect the pitch. As an experiment, try holding the water key open while playing a chromatic scale. When you hit the wave that hits the open hole, the trumpet wont play correctly. (I think, it's an experiment)

    On my Monette C trumpet I have a reverse lead pipe, all the others have standard lead pipes. Why? I think when they made the trumpet they found that it made a tuning difference. My C trumpet doesn't have the flat E thing. Another reason might be that there wasn't room to make the standard pipe work with the layout they used on this trumpet.

    Years ago I went to a Namm show. I don't know if that is the correct acronym. Anyway, my father had a music store and was a Bach dealer. My father introduced me to some guy at the Bach both who brought me in a sound proof little room and introduced me to another guy that worked in design and production.

    I tried a bunch of trumpets and the one I liked the best had a reverse lead pipe. I think a new thing for Bach at the time. I asked, "if this is so good, why don't you just make all the trumpets this way?" I was told that they were afraid to make a huge change like that selling so many trumpets with the old design. That guy thought it was the way to go.
     
  7. Trumpet Dreamer

    Trumpet Dreamer Mezzo Forte User

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    I wholeheartedly agree. Noting that any change would alter the trumpets character, where do the terms beneficial and detrimental enter into the equation?
     
  8. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    Beneficial (for my particular purposes) changes are ones which I have incorporated into the design of my trumpet. These same modifications might have the reverse (detrimental) effect on another trumpet design.

    As an example, a round tuning slide might help a particular brand of Bb but it deadens the sound on mine.

    This is what makes the work so interesting!

    And then I get to play the results!
     
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Ivan,
    you get to play the results long enough to get a real feel for the difference instead of just a quick thumbs up or down like most players in a music store.

    I recently accompanied a 10 year old student of mine to a music store to buy a new horn. He played 5 in the first half hour and we discovered 2 that were "better" than the rest. Choosing between those 2 took almost an hour. The final choice did not have a reversed leadpipe.

    The bottom line: you need to play the horn, optimally in all of the environments that you will be using it in.
     
  10. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    Yes rowuk,
    And you also need to assess how you are doing: is it the horn or is it me?
     

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