Reversed leadpipe

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by gerry, Aug 27, 2010.

  1. bagmangood

    bagmangood Forte User

    What about the "hidden reverse" slides of Malone? Like on the yamaha chicago and his conversions?
     
  2. Outkastah

    Outkastah Pianissimo User

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    Slides are a different story then Lead Pipes
     
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Nope, the same story. One further parameter with which the true artisan can shape the sound of the entire project.

    There are places where a relatively unbraced bell could help some players - in an acoustically dead studio. The bell will leak more information back to the player. That may work better than headphones where we only get a technical representation of the sound..
     
  4. Outkastah

    Outkastah Pianissimo User

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    Oops my bad haha... was not thinking on that one... :shock:
     
  5. EdMann

    EdMann Mezzo Forte User

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    I've been fortunate to gather a good size collection of horns: reversed leadpipe, extra bracing, strait braces, Z braces, and a good horn manufacturer knows what the deficiencies are in each arrangement and how to compensate. I'm no tech head, but it's clear on the 8310Z, a reversed leadpipe/minimal bracing arrangement that Yamaha compensated with a bell that would both project nicely and feedback well to the player. On the other extreme end you have a Harrelson Bravura, no reverse, bracing every which way, and it projects amazingly well, but Jason has apparently made adjustments elsewhere to balance the sound for both player and listener.

    It's fun to grab or rubberband the Z horn between the bell and the tuning slide (if you truly have nothing else to do). The horn does get a bit less diffuse. My thought is that the bracing has more to do with these sound elements than reverse leadpipe, it's simply that the reversed pipe leaves fewer bracing options.

    Many, many players have told me that the what goes on upfront, i.e. the mpc/receiver/leadpipe arrangement makes a far greater difference in these elements: response, projection, feedback than ANY other manufacturing design on a horn. I've heard this over and over again--it's been demonstrated to me, as well-- and from my experience it seems to be correct.

    ed
     
  6. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    I have worked on some prototype instruments for another manufacturer using this system. This "hidden slide" configuration introduces even more variables, especially the variable length chamber created between the outside of the lead pipe and the inside of the added tubing. On first glance, it appears as if the front brace is traditionally mounted, but it is actually a brace connected to an extension tube. The more joints, the worse the result.

    I also must mention the impossibility of cleaning this system. I have a horn in my shop at the moment with this configuration which came in with a frozen main slide. It was a nightmare to free!
     
  7. Hoosier303

    Hoosier303 Pianissimo User

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    can someone please explain the reversed leadpipe? Is it truly reversed? If so why? What's the purpose? How can I tell the difference? Thanks
     
  8. ComeBackKid

    ComeBackKid Fortissimo User

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    I had the same question when I started my comeback and had forgotten (or didn't know) certain concepts and terms. It's unfortunate that the jargon of just about every area of endeavor develops certain misnomers or incorrect terms.

    In this case, the leadpipe is not reversed at all (the term "reversed" conjures up images of ones that taper down from the MP receiver to the main slide receiver). In actuality, the term "reversed" should refer to the main slide receiver.

    On a "standard" trumpet, the female pipe ("receiver") is connected to the leadpipe and the male pipe is connected to the tuning slide. With the "reversed" configuration, the female pipe is connected to the tuning slide and the male pipe is connected to - or simply an extension of - the leadpipe. But, because the female pipe must move with the slide, it cannot be used as an anchor for the front brace to the bell so that brace must be moved - or even eliminated - which changes the resonance and feedback of the bell and thus accounts for the different playing characteristics.

    I guess it is possible that the fact that the gap between the leadpipe and tuning slide (inside the pipes) is in a different place may also have a slight effect on the sound.
     
  9. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    The industry refers to "inner" and "outer" slides.

    Traditional trumpets have an outer slide connected to the leadpipe which accepts the inner of the tuning slide.

    Reverse lead pipe trumpets have either an extension added at a ferrule, or are one piece full length, and the end of it is the inner slide for the tuning slide.

    The Malone version adds a larger concentric tube to the leadpipe which looks as if it is a regular outer slide. The gap between these 2 tubes is the thickness of the tubing of the tuning slide, so that the tuning slide tends to bear both on the leadpipe and the extra pipe.
     

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