Rotary Club

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by BrassBandMajor, Sep 11, 2015.

  1. faulken

    faulken Pianissimo User

    Aug 20, 2013
    Greenwood, IN

    Thanks rowuk, that is something about the history I didn't know off hand. I was sure though he is alive as current as this summer when I had communication with him for rotor bumpers.
  2. Rickyroughneck

    Rickyroughneck Pianissimo User

    Apr 22, 2012
    Great thread, sorry for potentially hijacking but:

    Recent proud owner of a Cerveny CFH 803PX rotary fluegelhorn. I am having some trouble with the oiling of the rotors. I gave it a good bath after having two additional water valves installed which completely stripped the original oil away. The problem is with identifying the correct oil for the rotors themselves. Before bathing the horn, I had applied superslick rotory oil before (which in hindsight, despite the name, was for the bearings and linkages) which was too viscous so although the valves were delightfully smooth, they were a bit slow. After recommendation by a good French horn player, I put regular trumpet valve oil (Yamaha and Denis Wick advances formula, both synthetic) down but this seems to be too thin as the valves still have the metallic scraping sound that unoiled valves have. I put this down the lead pipe as well as the first and middle valve tubes and moved the horn around to distribute it.

    I had read conflicting reports on the oil used; some sources say that it is thicker than piston oil, and others that it is thinner due to the closer tolerance. What oils do players typically put on their rotary valves? Is it worth simply waiting until my next visit to Germany and ordering some Hetman 11/12?

    Answers gratefully received.
  3. faulken

    faulken Pianissimo User

    Aug 20, 2013
    Greenwood, IN
    I like hetman 12 for the rotors, and I also like hetman 17 for the linkages. If the 17 is a little stiff, then thin it down with a few drops of 12.

    With the scraping sound you might need to have a tech clean and re set the valve, it might be worth it if a shaving burr got in the valves. Side on caution and have a professional look at it before you go heavy on oiling to try to remove the metallic grating on your own metal on metal very bad. You also could be experiencing some crud that flaked off from cleaning. If you are confident you know how to disassemble it and work on it I would pull rotors and clean it again.

    I worked on my old junker flugel. It was a mess, but it is better now. It was a good learning experience, and taught me a ton. I don't ever plan to sell it really so I am ok with what I accomplished. I looked into valves and it is a stiff 300-350 per valve for a rebuild. Plating and honing is not much less.

    Remember what everyone says. If you are not comfortable, take it to the professional. And if you want to lean, find a beater to work on instead of a good horn you want to keep good.
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    I use standard synthetic piston oils for the rotors. I am also sure that if you have scraping, it is NOT coming from the rotor bearings. To identify the source, remove the screw connecting the linkage to the rotor. Turn the rotors by hand. If there is no scraping, the linkage is the culprit. If there is scraping, I suspect dirt in the rotor. I would probably then disassemble the rotor and clean up whatever I find. I do suspect the linkage as culprit.

  5. stumac

    stumac Fortissimo User

    Oct 19, 2008
    Flinders Vic Australia
    I use Ultra Pure valve oil on the rotors and linkages of my rotary valve instruments, I have never seen the need to use separate grades of oil for rotors and linkages except that it sells 2 bottles where 1 is sufficient.

    Regards, Stuart.
  6. Churchman

    Churchman Mezzo Piano User

    Apr 26, 2012
    Mazda RX8, in silver grey.
    gunshowtickets likes this.
  7. Peter McNeill

    Peter McNeill Utimate User

    Jan 30, 2009
    Melbourne Australia
    I too use Ultra Pure on the Vales and Linkages. Having said that, all my horns I have owned from new. I would give it to a Tech first, then get his advice for on going maintenance.

    If I Buy anything second hand, it gets a really good clean before it gets played. If it was a rotary, then it would go to the Tech for a first clean and service. You need to be sure everything is working as best as it can, or you will only get frustrated with it. Getting to know a good tech is really a long term relationship. I still send my rotaries to the Tech annually for a service and clean. It is a cheap investment.

    Congrats on the newpurchase
  8. Peter McNeill

    Peter McNeill Utimate User

    Jan 30, 2009
    Melbourne Australia
    Ahh, another Wankel in the group.
    Nice car, and as you know those Rotaries have a lot in common with the Rotary Horns. Right Oils, right servicing, and you can enjoy.
  9. tk1031

    tk1031 Pianissimo User

    Jul 6, 2010
    Valve oil is valve oil. Piston/rotary makes no difference. As for viscosity: use what works. However, toros use bearing oil as well. Bearing oil is thicker, and meant for the bearing surfaces only. Linkage oil (you guessed it) is thicker yet, and meant for the linkages. Hetman makes a balljoint oil as well, and it is thicker, and keeps those minibal joints, or whatever else you have running quiet. As for the extra water keys... want to make sure all of the "workings" (grit, metal bits, etc) are out of the horn.

    My $.02 I'm back to work

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