Rotary contest

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by BrassBandMajor, Jun 7, 2015.

  1. BrassBandMajor

    BrassBandMajor Fortissimo User

    3,050
    1,352
    Jan 13, 2015
    London
    Which would be better quality, response and sound projection.
    Josef Monke VS Ganter Munchen VS Meister J.Scherzer?
     
  2. Kujo20

    Kujo20 Forte User

    1,615
    659
    Sep 29, 2010
    Those that have played all three will have their opinions, but those opinions might not be the same as yours if/when YOU try all three.

    Kujo
     
  3. barliman2001

    barliman2001 Fortissimo User

    4,466
    4,565
    Jul 5, 2010
    Vienna, Austria, Europe
    Well, I'm in the position to judge because I've played all three (or rather, at least two of each maker).
    Build quality is more or less the same. All three are (or were, Hermann Ganter being dead) top-notch makers who really built their instruments to last a lifetime. With Ganter you have to make sure that you don't get an instrument marked "Ganter GmbH" because those were instruments built long after Hermann Ganter sold to company to a local music store who made sure the good (and expensive to pay) workmen left and only the trainees remained. Within a few months, that music store not only ran Ganter underground, but was snapped up by another company when their way of "keeping the price but lowering the quality and service" somehow did not work out.
    As to playing characteristics: Monke and Ganter are at extreme ends of the rotary trumpet spectrum, with Scherzer being in the middle. Monke built rather heavy trumpets with an extremely dark sound, verging on a edged cornet sound. Rather hard in the response, requiring lots of air; but perfectly suited for playing dramatic orchestral passages. Very good projection, but rather hard work. You would expect a Monke to be at its best in Wagner or Mahler -not for Mozart or Johann Strauss.
    That's the place where Ganter hooters really have their home. Excellent at general orchestral work, they were almost a must for any orchestral trumpet player in Germany 20 years ago. No other rotary in West Germany was as well equipped to be an only trumpet for a professional. I've known many orchestral trumpet players who for many years only had three instruments: A Ganter G7 or G7a, a Ganter C and a picc. And with that very limited collection of instruments, they played everything that came along - from Baroque oratorio via Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner up to contemporary music and Jazz. For many years, Claudio Roditi played a Ganter G7a... he once tried a Monke, but it did not work out for him.
    Scherzer? For many years, the brand was hampered by being a GDR trademark. Quality was good, but sometimes a bit chancy. And due to their production lines being distributed all over the Eastern bloc, with parts coming from as many as seven countries, you can't really judgee their sound and projection - every horn is slightly or radically different. Since 1989, however, Scherzer has solidified and is now at the top rank for piccs and high trumpets due to immense research and new technologies, whereas the Bb rotaries, being extremely traditional, have fallen off.
     
    Culbe likes this.
  4. BrassBandMajor

    BrassBandMajor Fortissimo User

    3,050
    1,352
    Jan 13, 2015
    London
    Thanks Barliman2001,
    Another person said his Monke needed a lot of air too!
     
  5. barliman2001

    barliman2001 Fortissimo User

    4,466
    4,565
    Jul 5, 2010
    Vienna, Austria, Europe
    Did you doubt my word? You know, when God the Father is at a loss, he asks me for advice... har har har ROFL:lol::evil::whistle:
     
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,611
    7,954
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    Monke is a problem in my book if you don't play before you pay. Most Bb and Cs have "dramatic" intonation issues that require the player to be very strong to make due - worse than the Bach 229 C trumpets.

    If it was a new rotary for ME these days: Dowids, Ricco Kühn or Weimann. No Monke, No Thein, No Schagerl, No Lechner - regardless of the price category! There are other good ones, but those horns would compliment the palette of colors that I currently have - opening up new directions ("standard" modern rotary trumpet sound).
     
  7. gunshowtickets

    gunshowtickets Forte User

    1,243
    781
    Mar 11, 2015
    Tidewater, VA
    What about Josef Dotzauer?
     
  8. barliman2001

    barliman2001 Fortissimo User

    4,466
    4,565
    Jul 5, 2010
    Vienna, Austria, Europe
    Dotzauer instruments are extremely traditionalistic in their approach - yoiu might say, good clones of instruments deriving from the 1880s following the recipe "We've always done it that way and we're continuing on that path". Good instruments, but just can't take on modern, research-based trumpets. Gerd Dowids, together with Thomas Hahn (another Ganter apprentice, who sadly passed away long before his fiftieth birthday in to a motorcycle accident) and Martin Wurm, had hundreds of trumpets x-rayed and tested metallurgically before even starting to develop his own horns.

    As regards Thomas Hahn and Martin Wurm - these two opened up their own repair and production workshop in the early 1990s, and all Munich was full of a joke about their names... Hahn being a cock (male bird!) and Wurm meaning worm. In that partnership, the bird got the worm...
     
  9. gunshowtickets

    gunshowtickets Forte User

    1,243
    781
    Mar 11, 2015
    Tidewater, VA
    Thank you very much, sir! Here in the former colonies, we only get a smattering of the fine rotary horns. Unless a trumpeter has extensive experience, such as yourself, we only hear from someone with a rotary hooter, "I traveled to Europe and played fifty different horns and settled on this one because it suited my style the best.". There's no comprehensive comparison such as we're getting through your insights posted in this thread, and for that, I must thank you.
    I've had in the back of my mind since I was in high school to get a rotary trumpet. Back then, you could buy a Yamaha pro model for less than half the price they go for now. Without any real knowledge of the sub-species, I have no idea what I'm looking for in a used sample.
    I ended up with my rotary flügel because I had heard them played in a variety of settings, wanted to wet my flügel feet, so to speak, and it's the first run from AMI. To divert the subject a bit, I will say it is the flügely-est sound possible, to my ears. Fluffy, dark, accurate, precise. Depending how rehearsal goes tomorrow, I may sub it in for the THAXTED tune we're playing/singing Sunday.
     
  10. BrassBandMajor

    BrassBandMajor Fortissimo User

    3,050
    1,352
    Jan 13, 2015
    London
    I think G.Dowids was a worker under Hermann Ganter's supervision??
    I don't like Dotzauer..... I have a feeling is that they make not really top-quality horns with huge price tags....
    NO OFFENSE
     

Share This Page