Rotary trumpet idea

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by gordonfurr1, Jun 2, 2015.

  1. gunshowtickets

    gunshowtickets Forte User

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    One could use it as as shield in such situations as below, which seem to be common reactions to my performances...

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  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    I think I played that horn at one of the music shows here in Germany not too long ago. I like the ideas that he turns into reality, but none of his horns have ever grabbed me and said BUY ME! If I wanted a mellophone, I can get a good one for far less money.........

    Andy Taylor on the other hand has had some interesting developments that actually tickled my fancy.......

     
  3. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

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    Welllllll.....Got a "wild hair" as they say. Today marked a real departure, and back towards a cut-and-pasted revision one commenter early on suggested. You see, your comments DO have an effect (but this is still not "community design"). One of the early concepts I had in my head was to make this an extreme EXAMPLE of the peashooter architecture concept...but with broader sound appeal being possible. I even had the notion that I'd sort of like it to be so extreme in that direction...long and narrow with a very tight wrap...that it would almost look from the audience that a person was holding something shaped more like a soprano sax than a typical trumpet. I felt it would be distinctive, and seem somehow appropriate for a LEAD player standing out front...And with the rotary valves I was able to make it even more vertically compact...
    I did not expect this to actually work out to my pleasure this afternoon when I started modifying the drawing...but after many different detail changes I found something that I REALLY like.
    I hope that you like it, too...or are at least pleasantly bemused.



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  4. gunshowtickets

    gunshowtickets Forte User

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    Oh, I like it a LOT!

    The Schlub "Community", in a nod to and along the same vein as the Martin Committee.
     
  5. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

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    Yepper..I got excited about it, too...and when I pushed back from the PC and took a long view of it got that "tingle inside" that spoke to me. I know when something is sweet that was just sketched when I get that tingle.
    Then, I took the next test...
    Walk away for a while and come back and see if it looks goofy or not.
    I did, it didn't (to me, anyway) and it was all that I could think about while I was out for a drive.
    I HAD to come back and look at it.

    Early on I had the thought that I wanted this instrument to almost have the visual impression of the player playing a soprano saxophone...so long and thin I wanted it to be. THIS fits that idea.
    Then, with a copper bell and tube, coupled with the wide outer edge with no rim...this SHOULD have more BREADTH to the tone than any peashooter before...more than most ordinary horns. Warmth, range, clarity, depth, bass...hopefully this combination will provide that...and the wrap really has little to do with that, actually...nor would it hurt it.
     
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Community input:
    what keeps the right thumb from getting caught in the valve linkage?
    Why the abrupt bell radius change?
    You need to draw the other side of the instrument. I have a feeling that it will be almost impossible to hold based on what I see. I wasn't so excited about the vertical valveslides, but the horn could be held like a flugel in that case.
    Spit will collect in the loops immediately before and after the valve cluster. Because of the loop, it will not be easy to drain.
    No trim has already been covered.
     
  7. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

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    Yes, Had anticipated those thoughts.
    I will sketch the left side beginning tonight.

    I see no insurmountable issue and had already imagined some options before posting. Between your German scientists and our intrepid American spirit I was able to watch Neil Armstrong leave to go to the moon with my own eyes and later to successfully walk upon it. Fashioning a handhold on a piece of brass? Piece-o-cake. I'll post some ideas. I DO want to keep that aspect flexible as it will have an effect on the resonance of the instrument exactly how and where they attach. We all know there will need be pieces for that function.

    One question comes to my mind regarding resonance changes with attachments...I've heard tons of discussion about the ruinous effects of attaching braces, but never a mention of the damping effect of having a human hand wrapped around the valve bodies and tubes. There has to be some effect...a metal attachment might well be a sharp effect but a spongie human hand mass HAS to absorb a considerable amount of energy.

    The abrupt bell radius change was a separate idea that had arisen earlier...and would require quite a bit of testing to see any possible fruition. I just wanted to document the idea so as to be able to recall it later. The general notion is two-fold: Find a spot that a reversion could reflect from to "fill in" any weak response in the frequencies produced. A reversion occurs at any sharp edge, so the trick is to place one or more in just the right place(s) to elicit a desired result. Another aspect of having such a radius change is that it stiffens and strengthens the basic bell structure without adding any appreciable mass. That might well be a good thing with a rimless bell. Now, even without a "rim" so to speak, having the large flat would also strengthen the bell from crush in direct vertical compression..though the flat rim could well be pushed for/aft easily. I WOULD enjoy trying a copper bell on this. One other idea was having "steps" or "terraces" so to speak on the bell and bell tube..perhaps akin to a Pilckzic (sp?) leadpipe at the other end of the resonance chamber. I know well making such optimal would be a lot of trial and error, but why not consider it down the road? Thinking is free. Building test mules not so much.

    Spit. Yes. Easy enough. I just haven't taken the additional time to copy/paste the valve to the low spots. Planned to do so. One thought, though...the further along the less accumulation. I suspect in real life the bell loop would not really accumulate much, and if it did, simply rotating the horn backwards would empty it out the bell. I've done so with a (French) horn plenty of times.

    Anyway, thanks for looking, and later this evening I hope to have more views to share.
     
  8. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

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    Here's what I imagined for the left side...
    The rings would project out from the rotor caps about an inch to give room for fingertip. This is very simple, adjustable, lightweight. There are other possibilities, but this was the first notion. I also added a fixed hook for anchoring one of the lower fingers of the left hand...that COULD be a ring likewise, but shown as a hook for now. I wouldn't actually set ANY of this in stone until the corpus is built and functional so as to see the effect on the instrument as a whole.
    Oh, I forgot to add the thumb ring for the player's right thumb...



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  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    I consider an unbraced horn as ruinous. No control, spitty, splatty sound above mezzo forte and intonation issues galore.

    There are various vues on hand damping. My personal view is that certain parts of the horn have to be damped and others have to conduct vibration to another part of the horn. Ingrid Jensen recently mentioned not letting the hand contact the bell to prevent damping. I certainly will not question her very well documented and supported stand on specific instruments.

    at 2:03 she talks about holding a Bach trumpet:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7XcmWe5sIM
    Notice however that she does not hold the Monette that way. This matches my experience.
     
  10. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

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    I mirrored the valve section vertically so that the KNUCKLES are at the bottom, and essentially WIDENED the corpus one layer of piping (~.5") to allow for the slide piping and bell loop connector passage.
    I had to raise the finger button about a quarter inch, and reset the paddle lever platform to a new perch...but I think this, though a devilishly complex piece of plumbing, to be quite interesting. I hope so, as I spent the last six hours thinking and sketching...

    I added a cross-section view from the player's perspective cut just aft of the valve cluster so as to be able to see clearance for the connecting rods.

    Enjoy!
    For what it's worth, there has NEVER been another one just like this on this blue planet. Maybe one of the Earthlike planets we are discovering....but not THIS planet. I could spend days looking over a horn like this if I had it in my hands.

    [​IMG]



    Maybe, Instead of thinking of this as the latest and most extreme iteration of the classic "PEASHOOTER" we could just create a different genre...the NEEDLE trumpet.
     

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