Rotary trumpet idea

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by gordonfurr1, Jun 2, 2015.

  1. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

    2,107
    1,091
    Aug 2, 2010
    North Carolina
    Yes, I wondered about that, But haven't the experience to know if spit would accumulate that far in along the path.
    I admit I can't play for very long now, but do not ever recall having to empty my third slide on a trumpet, but sure some would on longer sets.
    But, there is remedy...
    When the valves are in the open position the spit could be blown quickly out the first valve slide if removed, or a water key placed either on the slide or the last knuckle.
    Playing a double horn I often had to clear the leadpipe, and very occasionally one of the F side slides (usually the third)...but I never had to empty the B-flat side valve slides.
    Horns are notorious water P-traps...so, I would guess a water key might also he advised in this case either on the last knuckle or the third valve slide.
     
  2. gunshowtickets

    gunshowtickets Forte User

    1,243
    781
    Mar 11, 2015
    Tidewater, VA
    When you play hymn tunes and what not in a very cold church, water accumulates FAST in the slides. I would not want to blow that stuff in the same direction as my face, either a 3rd dump slide or water key would be best, in that order of preference.
     
  3. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

    2,107
    1,091
    Aug 2, 2010
    North Carolina

    Heeheehee. Spitoon.
    You know, it would be a reasonably easy matter to install an Amado on the knuckle, and the pushbutton would be right at the thumb...so one might not even have to move the thumb out of the ring to release the Amado (or whatever brand) water key...
    I'll just show that. Stock on Amado's NYSE just spiked upwards.
     
  4. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

    2,107
    1,091
    Aug 2, 2010
    North Carolina
    BELL ROUTED TO BOTTOM RIGHT.

    I was having some glitching issues with the fill function of the software, but suspect you can get the gist of the idea here.
    Did add water keys on knuckles, rerouted bell, made number two valve slide a fixed in place knuckle and used it to help hold spatula plate in place (serves as brace between rotor bodies also).
    New thought her based on an idea Rowuk shared with some non-symmetrical high-end speaker horns that had a large area on the edge of the bell that accentuated the lower overtones.
    I was thinking about this, and it seems to me that instead of having a symmetrical flat around the edge of the bell, make the flat eccentric...so that it won't tend to resonate so strongly at one harmonic..but somewhat over a broader range of the low end. The idea is to have another way to fine-tune frequency balance. I added 3/8" to the radius at the top edge.

    [​IMG]


    I see a number of corrections needed...some color areas, also importantly bell tail wrap can be simplified coming from above third valve loop down to tail curve-around nearest the player. That can all be one large, graceful bend in one angled plane since it is well past the valve block instead of a series of small, sharp bends as shown now. End view does not correctly show either curve. I also see that I forgot to show the uniball linkages BEHIND the spatula plate instead of in front (viewed from left). I reversed the rocker direction so as to run the uniball linkages down through the space between the leadpipe and added interior middle tubing path.

    Special care will need to be exercised when custom ordering these rotor blocks, as the knuckle directions are quite unusual, and the registration marks will be in an unusual direction.

    I MAY discover that if this were to be built as sketched but without the finger rings yet installed, that the player's hand might fit and find a good natural hold around the valve bodies and tubing WITHOUT any required extra finger rings. In that case, it would be optional to use a finger ring and that in order to intonate a slide.

    Thank you for looking!
     
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,609
    7,945
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    I want no responsibility for asymmetric bells. It was Vulgano Brothers idea. I think that the trumpet lives from resonance and have a hunch that the asymmetry will not be helpful. I also would not want any added mass on the knuckles.

    There are trumpets that collect spit and others that don't. A revolutionary design IMHO should reduce the places that it can collect and not simply add more spitkeys and mass to places that we don't want it. I do understand that this is a dream in progress. Please take my constant criticism as constructive. It is really so meant.

    You could simplify the bell connection spit issue by using a Heckel geometry for the first valve slides. The same could happen with the third valve slides too. Then you have a straight shot into the valveblock on both sides.
     
  6. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

    2,107
    1,091
    Aug 2, 2010
    North Carolina
    Well shoot. I keep wanting to try different things.
    I WANTED the corpus to be VERY densely packed so that the instrument could be as physically LEAN as possible...this IS supposed to be an extreme conclusion of a peashooter, though I want it to play with a broader, more lush sound than normally assumed for the niche...
    The convolutions of the bell tail coming from the third valve visually troubled me...so I stylized the layout with a lovely and logical curve ( I thought) down to the bell tail turnabout.
    Then, inspired...decided to do as much the same thing as I could (leaving tuning slide length) to the third valve area.

    I hope that you like this. Looks cleaner to me.
    I did not show any finger rings...we know what those look like...and may not be required.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

    3,185
    976
    Mar 21, 2006
    Toronto
    With the placement of the bell underneath, why bother making it TARV. Why not just make it a normal rotary?
    It seems like it will cause hand cramps the way it is now.
     
  8. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

    2,107
    1,091
    Aug 2, 2010
    North Carolina
    I'll show the hand-holds tomorrow. The right hand is very normal, though there will be a ring added for the right thumb behind the lead pipe outer shell. This will keep the thumb comfortable and away from the first valve uniball linkage.
    The left hand would essentially be held as the earlier top bell sketch...I elected to not show the rings in place so as to be able to more clearly see the architecture.
    I'll provide details after I recover a bit. Hours and hours of work having been invested in exploring these ideas, and I am now tired.
    Thank you so much for looking and commenting.
     
  9. gunshowtickets

    gunshowtickets Forte User

    1,243
    781
    Mar 11, 2015
    Tidewater, VA
    Why bother doing anything at all that's new?
     
  10. gunshowtickets

    gunshowtickets Forte User

    1,243
    781
    Mar 11, 2015
    Tidewater, VA
    Also, second valve is going to be 90° off from first and third?

    I like where this is going. A reformatted version of K Scherzer's Piechlers.

    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page