rowuck and "wrap"

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by crowmadic, Jan 24, 2008.

  1. crowmadic

    crowmadic Mezzo Piano User

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    Oct 3, 2006
    rowuck,
    Now that you've taught me what "wrap" refers to on a trumpet, I'm wondering how much it influences a "auburn" sound as compared to "arrows & jackhammers".........or.........does it just make a difference in the "blow," and if so, in what way?.......thanks, crow
     
  2. et_mike

    et_mike Mezzo Forte User

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    Someone needs to create a dictionary of "Trumpet lingo"!! Now I'm confused!! I don't have a clue what any of that means!!! :lol:
     
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Crow,
    the length of the trumpet is more or less fixed based on the Bb frequency chosen. How I wrap the trumpet influences where braces go, where bends are, how easy the instrument is to hold. All of those factors together (along with material, thickness, bore size, leadpipe taper, gap, tightness of the valves, bell taper, plating or laquering, damping factor of the players hand, distribution of mass..........) influence the playing characteristics. Auburn to arrows is possible when the mix matches your heart, not your brain. All of the psychobabble about specs then become meaningless.

    I am pretty sure that we can make a rational decision based on a playing experience - any other way is just a poor guesstimate. Most of the manufacturers are content with the reality that most customers do not use their heart when buying a trumpet. It is much easier to sell on specs and perceived benefits - or on brand blindness.

    It would be interesting to take the emails and phone calls to a Felix at NYTC or a Dave Monette that lead up to the purchase of a trumpet. The client describes what they do and what sound that they are looking for. After 6 months of owning the horn, we then record that player performing their music live from a position in the audience. We then take those recordings and play them for pro players (anonymously of course) and take notes to compare what they hear with the clients original wishes. Want to take bets that there will be great discrepancies? Why? Because even although there is a basic sound quality with any hardware decision, the heart (or lack of it) always wins. A horn that REALLY matches an individual will be more transparent, letting more "soul" out!

    THIS is why I personally believe that BRAND BLINDNESS is a curse to the music world. We press classical players into a situation where the lie about "blending" and "intonation" becomes more important than maximum musical tranparency. After a while, playing becomes routine and change equals inconsistency.

    Back to your post: a larger wrap could make the horn more free blowing, but then again, maybe it just slots better - or worse. It just depends..................

    My auburn sounding Monette has a much tighter wrap than the Connstellation, but I played a rotary Bb from Lätzsch that also was auburn but had a bigger wrap than the Conn, so I guess there has to be another reason.............

    Sorry that i got carried away!
     
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  4. crowmadic

    crowmadic Mezzo Piano User

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    thanks rowuck.....don't stop getting "carried away"..........crow
     
  5. Richard Oliver

    Richard Oliver Forte User

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    Robin, what do you mean? Sorry for my obtuseness :)
     
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Richard,
    any time artists are pressed into a mold, diversification and art suffers.

    When I look at the American way, I see Bach or recently Yamaha as the only choices if you want to get a job with a symphony orchestra. In Europe, we have much greater diversification and do not have any blend or intonation issues. Jazz artists are not pressed into that box either!

    I think it is unfortunate that the minds have become so closed that there is no choice. I don't think that a section of Wild Things, Eclipses, NYTC, Monette, Selmer, Courtois or even mixed piston trumpets would degrade any major orchestra. It would surely introduce new colors into the orchestral fabric though.

    The premise that every professional player can get infinite colors with their horn is equal B.S.. There is a personal style of playing that is the players trademark, let us call this the elegance factor. Here the player can influence the fluidity, agressiveness or intimate approach to creating notes. There is also a basic "color" to any horn. A while back, there was a video of Manny playing 5 different Monette trumpets. Each had its own sonic signature - even with the very mature musicality and chops of Mr. Laureano.

    I miss classical players in America trying to stretch the fabric. Even if they wanted to, most probably wouldn't be able to get away with it.

    I know that we will get a reply to my post that the Bach sound is what the player has in their head, that is why they use those instruments. I say that is a load of BS. Most players were moved to Bach relatively early in their career and were "conditioned" to that sound. I was told by my college professor to buy Bach if I wanted to get a job playing.

    I am not down on Bach or Yamaha, but wish the strive for security would be replaced by a willingness to be different, take chances, broaden the perspective. A start is using rotary horns for Mahler, Brücker and Wagner, and perhaps natural trumpets for Mozart and Beethoven. The players that do, generally have a lot of positive things to say about the experience........ Imagine a section of Olds Recording trumpets................

    I do practice what I preach. I played Mahler8 last Febrary and the section used rotaries, Symphonic Dances from West Side Story and Tchaikowsky 5 with the Monette Bb, Holst Planets with my Bach C, Mozart masses, Beethoven9 and Haydn the seasons on the nat. It is FUN working out the intricacies of each instrument to get the best results. I feel the music benefits greatly. Early music reaps great benefits from a less massive trumpet sound with a bit more edge at lower volumes. I can only say, try it, you'll like it but know what the net result will be. sigh!

    This has taken on rant proportions again and I am sorry.
     
  7. hubnub

    hubnub Piano User

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    Robin

    Is there anything you DON'T know.....;-)
     
  8. talcito

    talcito Piano User

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    You got my vote for a "Rowuck" Forum. Enjoy your posts.....

    Oscar
     
  9. Richard Oliver

    Richard Oliver Forte User

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    Yes, Robin; thanks so much! Will reread and ponder.

    When I was a kid, I was a golf nut. Age 9. There were some guys who were so out of the mold: Miller Barber, Lee Trevino spring to mind. Swing plane quirky or all wrong. But they brought the club face across the ball in such a manner to get the job done. And done very well. Their uniqueness made them only more charming to me. And still do.

    Now it seems they are all the same. Of course, not true; but that's how it seems.

    An analogy might hold true for trumpeters. Maybe. Or at least the equipment point.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2008
  10. jazz9

    jazz9 Piano User

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    I will agree with the Lee Trevino one. He is a very good example of a rags to riches story. Don't know about Miller Barber, though.
     

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