sax players

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Tammerman175, Jul 1, 2008.

  1. Tammerman175

    Tammerman175 New Friend

    Oct 19, 2007
    Has there always been a "war" between sax and trumpet players ?
    By "war" I mean the saxes always blame the trumpet section for screwups and the trumpets insist that it's harder than it looks, and so on and so forth. This happening every time the teacher stops us and asks what's wrong with the piece.
  2. Toobz

    Toobz Mezzo Piano User

    Feb 5, 2007
    As a sax player, my best friends were/are trumpet players. We all knew who screwed up when they did. No need to assign blame. Only the guilty try to direct blame to someone else.
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    The problem has nothing to do with the trumpet. It has to do with the ego behind the trumpet.

    Sitting in front of a trumpet section is annoying when they blast, try to play things an octave up - but can't and think that their function in life is to get the others to complain.

    Reed players can be very good friends if you really play what is on the page including the dynamics. A little discipline goes a long way.......
  4. MaynardTrumpet

    MaynardTrumpet Pianissimo User

    May 25, 2008
    What are you people always talking about having battles between the woodwinds and brass lol. In my 3 years of high school not once did I hear something like this, and probably never will because everyone just plays their part. Our teacher is also very strict on dynamics so you won't hear something "overpowering". It's up to your teacher to keep control, nothing more.
  5. Toobz

    Toobz Mezzo Piano User

    Feb 5, 2007
    Amen !
  6. ccNochops

    ccNochops Piano User

    Sep 30, 2006
    White Marsh, VA
    Yes..... :)
  7. oldlips48

    oldlips48 Piano User

    Mar 1, 2007
    I think it has to do with the fact that trumpet players are simply better looking than sax players!!!
  8. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

    Oct 18, 2007
    The Wide Brown Land
    I wish to repeat a comment from AjnaII:

    There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality:
    There is the one that lives only to lay waste to the woodwinds and strings, leaving them lying blue & lifeless along the swath of distruction. That is a trumpeter's fury; then there is the dark side.......

  9. Pete

    Pete Piano User

    Nov 17, 2007
    oldlips48 wrote:
    "I think it has to do with the fact that trumpet players are simply better looking than sax players!!!"
    This is true!

    The problem isn't saxophone players, it is the issue of not understanding how to play in an ensemble. The biggest difference is that there is no understanding of the limitations of dynamics when the softest volume starts at forte. Saxophone is so much easier to sustain loud playing although the trumpet sections are usually blamed for the increased volume. This is usually as a result of poorly approached dynamics within an entire ensemble and spirals into volume chaos. This results in less accurate trumpet and trombone playing because you are now out of the comfort zone for playing within your own dynamic range.

    Herb Pomeroy said in an article I read just before he left us: "Exagerate the soft dynamics!"
    What a concept. Being aware of bringing the dynamics down to pp instead of using the 'f' dymamic as your softest starting point.This concept has escaped many players because of the perception that volume means "good sound" rather than proper dynamics meaning "musical sound".

    How many times have we done gigs where the "sound engineer" puts 6 microphones on the drum set, a mic on each sax, a mic on guitar, bass, and piano, and hang two mics over the brass section. This has happened in venues that people should know better.

    The perception is that the brass are too loud already, so they don't need any help! Brass players are responding to the grossly different dynamic levels and the percetion for us is that we aren't playing loud enough, because we can't hear ourselves. This makes us "shoot in the dark".You miss your target that way more times than not.

    This can all be remedied by playing musically, rather than playing loudly as a group. Unfortunately, this concept is harder than ever to convey because a lot of the less experienced players don't get to hear great ensembles play live, and rarely study the great groups to understand the concepts of playing in an ensemble. Just listening to the Count Basie Orchestra would improve this issue. Not many do anymore though. It's all about being heard and being a soloist. The team player approach is dwindling, unfortunately. Playing up to the section leaders rather than over them is becoming a lost art.

    I've heard Gordon Goodwin's band play live as well as John Fedchock's. The dynamics were wonderful! Both Wayne B and Tony K. would have some struggles I'm sure if the softest volume started at forte and never went below that for the entire gig, while playing most of the music at doulble, and triple forte!

    Last edited: Jul 5, 2008
  10. Solar Bell

    Solar Bell Moderator Staff Member

    May 11, 2005
    Metro Detroit
    Great Post Pete!

    Hit the nail on the head.

    Our sound guy mics everyone...we have had countless disputes. He mics us all and shuts the trumpet and bone mics off except for solos (which he often misses)

    The result is just to be heard (by ourselves) we are working WAY to hard some nights.

    A close friend of mine has been the Basie lead trumpet player for 20 years, you're right....THAT band plays with dynamics. All should listen to it sometime.


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