Schilke e3L Valve alignment

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by tromba415, Jan 31, 2009.

  1. tromba415

    tromba415 New Friend

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    Dec 25, 2008
    Quick question:
    I recently purchased a brand new Schilke e3l, and discovered the valves are not exactly aligned. I believe they are not aligned because the green felt pads that came with the horn are keeping the valves from going all the way down. I have to push down on the valves quite hard to get them to align. I checked with a friend who also owns one and she told me her vavles are the same way.
    My question is will the pads sort of wear down and become not as much of a problem? or should I replace the pads? Next question is, if I am to replace the pads what pads would be most recommended and where could I find them.

    Thanks in advance to any response.

    Take Care
     
  2. s.coomer

    s.coomer Forte User

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    From what I hear this is a common problem with Schilke. If it is truly getting in your way of playing the instrument I would either contact Schilke or take it to a repair shop and have the pads replaced.
     
  3. RobertSlotte

    RobertSlotte Pianissimo User

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    Finland
    I do not thik it mathers.....When I play with my Bb trumpet/Eb trumpet or piccolo...if I do NOT pusch the valve 100% down and listening to the sound....nothing is diferent. I think this whole valve aligmenth thing is just one more way to get money for smart business men.

    Im sure a lot of trumpetplayers will disagre with me though. But thats ok :)
     
  4. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

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    I think way too much is made of valve alignment to a degree that is just silly. If the valves are so far off that the horn is not playing in tune then it was not built right and needs to go back tot he factory since even the Chi-Com's can make a horn that has adequate valve alignment to play properly in tune! If you are just being nit picky and unrealistic then I would say stop. I know far too many people that do not even push their valves all the way down and have no issue with sound to worry about a few thousands of an inch here and their! I know Charlie Melk and other's make a nice liveing offering their percision valve alignment services but I think it is over kill. If a $2000-$4000 trumpet has such awful valve alignment that it needs something like this in order to function properly then something is wrong!!! Companies spend a lot of money engineering the valve engine to be almost moneky proof in terms of ease of assembly and for nice feel and function. The modern valve engine has not changed much over the last 100 year's other then being made cheaper then in year's past and from lighter materials.If they where able to get decent valve alignment 100-500 year's ago with primative methods I fail to see how their should be an issue with a modern trumpet machined on equipment that could not be dreamed of even 50 year's ago.

    In fact I just tried moveing my valves up and down slightly while playing and it takes quite a lot of movement to start to change the sound and I am on playing on a $100 TU-58 Reynolds from 1968 with origanal felts and springs etc.....

    Yes the felts will compress over time. If you want them to compress a bit faster aa drop of oil onthem would make them compress faster with out waiting for them to wear out.

    This kind of goes back to my rant last night about perception!!! Guy's with Jupiter's student models and Barrington's and such have no problem with their alignment, felts or valveson a sub $500 trumpet's but an un godly expensive trumpet of "pro" quality is haveng issues with it's felts not allowing proper alignment of the valves????? Jupiter,Holton,Reynolds etc.....must all know something that Schilkes does not.

    Please do not get offended by this but I want to ask a serious question and I hope you will be honest with me. Is this a matter you being disapointed with the sound of the trumpet as in it did not magicaly alter your normal base sound from what you had before so we are looking for some issue with it to justify the disapointment? What I mean is because it does not live up to your pre-concieved idea's of how it would sound for you then it must be broken????

    The reason I ask is because it is an expensive horn and has been well engineered I am sure. I am guessing that schilkes does not randomly buy felt's or varing thickness they buy a very specific product meeting their specsifications and cut them to fit. It is not like they are going to take your felts and chuck them in a gringer or on a sander and alter their physical diemension. I am guessing they must have a guage or jig already set up in the plant that they use to check that the alignment is with in specifications before it leaves the plant. The alignment of the valves is a fairly basic portion of design and is a must. It is not like somethign minor that is a required thing for proper function of a valved trumpet. So I am guessing that they will get your trumpet check that it is with-in specifications and send it back to you haveing done nothing unless you have a rare example of some drastic manufactureing error!

    I doubt they are going to get the mirror's out and go to the extreme that someone like Charlie Melk or the Valve Dr. would. Just my opinion. If you have the ability to measer the fully seated depth from the bottom of the case up to the valve's bottom like with a caliper. It would be interesting to see what it is now and post return from Schilkes. I say this because I doubt they will change a thing even if they do put a new set of new felts just like the ones that are already on it from the factory.

    So then that leads me to my next question. If you get it back from Schilkes and it is just like it is now after they service it then what?

    Now I have had issues with aftermarket felts but never with OEM felts! When I can get OEM felts they always do what they where engineered to do. that is with OEM felt's and cork's etc.....All I have ever had to do is exchange them out and the valve's stayed perfectly with-in their OEM designed tolerances and clearances. Now when I have been forced to use aftermarket felts I have had to use 2-3 some times to get back to the OEM hight etc.......

    I am very interested though inthe final out come of this situation since it is a high end horn and is brand new direct fromt he factory! I would love to hear how things turn out!
     
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    A common problem with Schilke? Where does this BS come from. Maybe the uninformed just have no idea what Schilke says is right. These guys are so on the money with their quality of build, consistency and design, I will consider the doubters to be wrong before Schilke.

    If you know how this stuff works, pads get THINNER with use, not thicker. I'll say if you have a question, write Schilke a mail. This internet advice sounds pretty dubious to me!

    I agree with LV that this alignment stuff is more for the geeks than the performers. I am not saying that it makes no difference. I am saying that drinking tea instead of coffee before playing makes more difference.
     
  6. tromba415

    tromba415 New Friend

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    Dec 25, 2008
    "Please do not get offended by this but I want to ask a serious question and I hope you will be honest with me. Is this a matter you being disapointed with the sound of the trumpet as in it did not magicaly alter your normal base sound from what you had before so we are looking for some issue with it to justify the disapointment? What I mean is because it does not live up to your pre-concieved idea's of how it would sound for you then it must be broken????"

    I don't feel that I am making up an issue to justify any sort of disappointment. As a matter of fact I feel that my sound on smaller horns such as a picc. or this E3L has better clarity and better response then on my bigger horns (which have no issue's in regards to valve alignment). The issue is simple for me. I am a student pursuing a masters degree in trumpet. Being a student (especially these days) the horn was a huge investment for me, and to spend almost 3000 bucs on a horn and have the valves not be aligned was a little disappointing. I do understand that it doesn't make much of a difference (the horn plays fine), but little imperfections in a horn I spent so much on do nag at me just a little. Kind of like if you bought a brand new car and the wind shield wipers were not working normal.I know there is nothing wrong with the horn from an engineering stand point, that is why I mostly just wanted to know if I could order different pads from somewhere and put them on my self. If I can do this it would be that easy, but if not I'll just wait for the pads to flatten out.
     
  7. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    I am not sure that what most people expect to be "aligned" is really the best performing measurement. Let's not forget that the deviations from horn theory are what makes a trumpet even playable. Schilkes quality control is the best in the industry. Write Schilke if you are concerned. They will send you pads if there is a real issue. It is a great company. Andrew Naumann is the boss. Write him if you are not satisfied. I have NEVER experienced a Schilke with a problem like this!
     

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