Schilke on air usage

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by dizforprez, Jan 31, 2005.

  1. Heavens2kadonka

    Heavens2kadonka Forte User

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    There is a pitfall into knowing its not the air, however. You may decide to not focus the air through the horn, to not think about blowing wind though the horn. Then you wont be blowing through the center of the pitch...

    Going off-subject, I am wondering: What is it called when you are taught to blow directly into the throat of the mouthpiece?

    Van
     
  2. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

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    Yee HAW!
    That's also an awesome way to jam a mouthpiece in so that you need a trip to the "puller"! All it really does is demonstrate that there is a set of natural resonances in the horn that change with different fingerings.

    You still need to initiate a sustained vibration (with your air forcing your lips apart and then letting them "slap" back together) so that the horn can reinforce that vibration and allow a component of the energy to "escape" to the listener. If you could create that vibration without blowing (a tiny speaker hooked up to a tone generator and held to the mouthpiece or leadpipe?) then you'd still hear sound but with NO air "flow" through the horn.

    The "louder" (or more energetic) the initial vibration, the more the horn can reinforce it for volume. Obviously some folks have more efficient "vibration creation" than others and don't need as much air FLOW to generate GOOD VIBRATION(s). Some horns are more efficient than others at the reinforcement game as well, depending upon bracing, assembly, metalurgy, etc,etc etc. Then there is the consideration of the mouthpiece (and all the variables therein). All in all, a great 1st or 2nd year engineering study! (Van?)
     
  3. Heavens2kadonka

    Heavens2kadonka Forte User

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    Ahh, forgot about that! :oops:

    Haha, I'm quoting a quoting quote....

    Van
     
  4. BflatAnklan

    BflatAnklan Pianissimo User

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    Ok, obviously tone production is an subjective matter, so I won't into that. The key word in my shpeal was "gently".

    Hope is still helps someone!
     
  5. BflatAnklan

    BflatAnklan Pianissimo User

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    Morning,

    Ok, so If a person wanted to demonstrate the same thing I mentioned above without tapping the mouthpiece, try this:

    As you are playing a note, hold the horn with your right hand and hold the mouthpiece stem with your left hand. Now, while still playing the note, gently remove the mouthpiece from the horn. Is the mouthpiece buzzing? If it is perhaps you are playing very loudly.

    This demonstrates that buzzing does not create the tone. In fact, it has been proven (as we have already stated) that sound is produced by vibrations of the air-column within the horn.

    Ok, now you call all put your mouthpiece pullers away! :roll:
     
  6. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

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    Say what? You need SOMETHING to initiate the vibration of the air column in a repetitive fashion (otherwise you might as well become a percussionist). That "SOMETHING" is the buzzing of your lips. Yes, you can create a "tone" by tapping the mouthpiece or any other vibrating thing that will initiate an amplification...but try tapping the mouthpiece at the frequency necessary to maintain a double C!!!! Bet you find the only way you can do that is by buzzing.

    You blow air through your embouchure. The air flow reacts against the tension (or compression....depending on how you look at it) to cause your chops to buzz. The buzz (which is a vibration that can have different frequencies and waveforms) is taken by the horn and amplified. Some of the resultant vibration of the air column reflects back from the bell flare to your chops to reinforce the buzz. Some of the vibration of the air column causes the horn itself to resonate and reinforce the vibration of the air column. A little bit (I believe the number is around 15%) of the vibration escapes to the surrounding atmosphere to be heard by the listener.

    Without buzz there is no sustained vibration. Without sustained vibration there is only percussion.
     
  7. PH

    PH Mezzo Piano User

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    You have to change to the idea that the energy of the moving air is what sets the vibrations in motion and sustains them. The shift comes from thinking of blowing hard to thinking about moving the air with energy through the vibrations.

    I tell students that sound is vibrations. I simply tell students to move their energy through the sound.
     
  8. BflatAnklan

    BflatAnklan Pianissimo User

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    Toots,

    I respect what you are saying, and I must add that many of your posts are very good! This one is no less! I think I might have left something out here...

    The lips do provide an important function in playing, but not nearly as important as many people believe. The lips vibrate at different speeds for different pitches, but this vibration is INVOLUNTARY and is a result of the changing speed of the air passing over the lips. If one tries to control the lips, it is impossible to change the position for every note in a fast passage.

    So what do you the lips do? They just sit there and provide a vibratory medium between the mouthpiece and the teeth. Once it is all set, the player does the rest with his or her air.

    So, the lips will vibrate, but you do not need to create a buzz to produce sound. Nature will take care of that for you.

    Good day!
     
  9. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

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    Yee HAW!
    Mat...I think we're pretty much saying the same thing now. The issue was whether or not the vibration of the lips is necessary to sustain the sound (vibration is simply repetitive "impulses" characterised by alternating compression/tension) and the effect of the horn (both the metal and the air column within) on that vibration.

    I do have one question left in my mind before we "30" this one... do you not think that the player adjusts the tension (or compression) in their embouchure as they increase the air speed for higher range? Personally I believe that they do... even if it is "involuntary" (actually, I think it's a learned, "rote" response). Reading your previous message I can't tell if you agree with that (varying tension) or not. I think of a blade of grass when you hold it between your thumbs and blow across it.... the tighter the blade of grass is held AND the harder you blow, the higher the note you will get. If you blow hard on a blade that is held loosely, it simply flops off to one side and no sound is produced.

    In the case of our chops, yes...we blow harder for higher notes. But unless we can also provide more tension (or compression), the higher air speed will simply blow our chops "open" and we lose the vibration. Or am I misunderstanding something in what you wrote?
     
  10. BflatAnklan

    BflatAnklan Pianissimo User

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    Ok, let me see if I can illustrate this for ya...

    Think about a balloon. Imagine that you blow up a balloon, and squeeze it without tying off the opening. The air would rush out quickly, and the resultant sound would be low and flatulent. Now imagine blowing up the same balloon, and as you squeeze it, I pull the opening taut with both hands. Now you can squeeze the balloon for a long time before the air runs out, and the resultant sound is a high pitched squeal.

    In our system, the lungs are like the balloon. You fill them up with air and let them deflate. The differences in resistance at the opening are created inside of our mouth. (Not by tighening and loosening the lips!) When the back of the tongue is low in the mouth, the oral cavity (inside of the mouth) is very big. As the back of the tongue come closer to the roof of the mouth, the oral cavity becomes smaller and more resistant. Thus, the air rushes across the tongue faster, and the pitch goes higher.

    Helps????
     

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